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Transport Minister urges airlines to stop separating parents, children

Transport Minister urges airlines to stop separating parents, children

Old Apr 29, 2016, 2:45 pm
  #241  
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Originally Posted by ACYYZ/SD
And according to post #228 it also happens on LH - an airline known for its technical expertise and acumen as well as the vast majority of others.
The reason LH relocates people all the time is that they couldn't care less about respecting seat assignments, not because of technology concerns. I have had seat assignments that kept my family together dishonoured when flying confirmed J on LH. I have had paid preferred seats dishonoured for no apparent reason. This is widely known, and one of the reasons why I don't fly them more often.


Originally Posted by ACYYZ/SD
Imagine a family books the day before and because of patchy seating availability an existing Customer is involuntarily relocated to accommodate a legislated policy.
If there is no seating availability to accommodate a family according to legislated policy, then you do not sell tickets to the family. Or you dishonour seat assignments and deal with the consequences - see above for LH's take on this.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 2:51 pm
  #242  
 
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Originally Posted by Mauricio23
The reason LH relocates people all the time is that they couldn't care less about respecting seat assignments, not because of technology concerns. I have had seat assignments that kept my family together dishonoured when flying confirmed J on LH. I have had paid preferred seats dishonoured for no apparent reason. This is widely known, and one of the reasons why I don't fly them more often.




If there is no seating availability to accommodate a family according to legislated policy, then you do not sell tickets to the family. Or you dishonour seat assignments and deal with the consequences - see above for LH's take on this.
Or you simply continue to do what I and my colleagues have done for years. Accommodate. My basic mantra for any dissatisfied, distressed, or inconvenienced Customer remains -- "allow us the opportunity to rectify the situation". Seems to have worked reasonably well thus far.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 3:03 pm
  #243  
 
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Originally Posted by ACYYZ/SD
Or you simply continue to do what I and my colleagues have done for years. Accommodate. My basic mantra for any dissatisfied, distressed, or inconvenienced Customer remains -- "allow us the opportunity to rectify the situation". Seems to have worked reasonably well thus far.
Interesting point. I was contemplating this issue on my drive this morning, and wondered if after all these years of experience the airlines have settled on the current approach as being the best one, when all things are considered. I have to say that in all my travels I have only occasionally seen cases where people needed to be reseated to accommodate kids, and the FAs have always been able to work it out without too much fuss. Admittedly this is not a perfect situation, but possibly the most workable one when considering AC's motivation to retain seat selection fees.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 5:23 pm
  #244  
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Originally Posted by ACYYZ/SD
Or you simply continue to do what I and my colleagues have done for years. Accommodate. My basic mantra for any dissatisfied, distressed, or inconvenienced Customer remains -- "allow us the opportunity to rectify the situation". Seems to have worked reasonably well thus far.
So when I think of Tango passengers who can't select seats together at check-in, I assume they're all being dumped in preferred seats, around people with status or who have paid to sit there.

I have no issue swapping like for like (i.e. row 13 aisle for row 14 aisle), or in J, anything if you ask nicely.

But do you expect customers to swap window/aisle for middle? Or preferred to non-preferred? Or are you usually able to resolve these situations without "downgrading" a passenger to a worse seat?
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 7:27 pm
  #245  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
I was thinking of a technical solution to this problem that would satisfy AC and passengers, but it's likely too complex for their system to handle.
I thought there was already a way to pair seats together... buying a seat for a cello, buying a second seat for thigh-overflow, ... virgin sells it as "seat plus" and I believe with AC you can do it, despite not being marketed with a product name... I'd hope it's not just a note in the PNR and human intelligence keeping it together.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 9:20 pm
  #246  
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Originally Posted by DrunkCargo
I thought there was already a way to pair seats together... buying a seat for a cello, buying a second seat for thigh-overflow, ... virgin sells it as "seat plus" and I believe with AC you can do it, despite not being marketed with a product name... I'd hope it's not just a note in the PNR and human intelligence keeping it together.
Ah but that's buying a seat, and attaching a second.

The big problem is a family of 5 with no pre-selected seats, who then show up at the airport and want to all sit together.

Edit: Although, again, the article said that if the child is MARKED as a child on the PNR, these problems are avoided.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 9:36 pm
  #247  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
So when I think of Tango passengers who can't select seats together at check-in, I assume they're all being dumped in preferred seats, around people with status or who have paid to sit there.

I have no issue swapping like for like (i.e. row 13 aisle for row 14 aisle), or in J, anything if you ask nicely.

But do you expect customers to swap window/aisle for middle? Or preferred to non-preferred? Or are you usually able to resolve these situations without "downgrading" a passenger to a worse seat?
I remember having another kind of "downgrade" last year on AC152. The flight wasn't full in Y so I had row 13 all to myself and there's no one in the 3 seats behind. But once we reached cruise altitude people from the back (non preferred seats) started to come up to the front.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 10:04 pm
  #248  
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Originally Posted by songsc
I remember having another kind of "downgrade" last year on AC152. The flight wasn't full in Y so I had row 13 all to myself and there's no one in the 3 seats behind. But once we reached cruise altitude people from the back (non preferred seats) started to come up to the front.
I would tell the crew. They are supposed to protect those seats, as they're not free.

I mentioned that to a FA when she wanted someone from row 1-4 on a CRJ to move back for W&B.

The announcement then became a request for someone from row 2-4.
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 10:33 pm
  #249  
 
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This may be controversial to ask but why does there need to be a charge to select your seat ahead of time? Is there any extra cost to the airline if they let you select when you book? (Not counting preferred seats)

When you buy tickets to a concert you get to choose the seats without having to pay extra, even when buying cheap tickets. Imagine if they said you had to pay extra to pick your actual seat or wait till 24 hours in advance and then pick seats in the level you bought your tickets.

For years there was no charge for selecting your seat. I get no frills, you don't get food for example without paying extra, but then the airline saves too. How does no advanced seat selection actually save the airline money and reduce costs?

Is it not just a money grab?
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Old Apr 29, 2016, 11:40 pm
  #250  
 
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It seems that every few months or so the CBC manages to squeeze in a story about "evil AC making families pay for seat assignments" somewhere in between their usual daily propaganda topics. Unless these entitled parents of a 2 yr old brat have been living under a rock, they should know that airlines charge fees for just about everything. It is what it is, get over it. I'm sure they spend money on extra crap for the kid all the time, so pay the ***** $40 and shut up! Then they don't have to stress over where they're going to sit and won't annoy other flyers or the gate agent by asking to switch seats.
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Old Apr 30, 2016, 4:34 am
  #251  
 
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The theory that Low Cost Airlines and Ultra Low Cost airlines use is that they can charge for all of the extras (seat selection, food, checked baggage, even carry-ons and printed boarding passes for some ULCCs). It doesn't matter if the extras cost the airline anything or not, they make their money on the extras. They can use this additional revenue to lower the basic seat price for everyone.

The problem is that Air Canada is used to be a mainline carrier, but acts like a LCC some of the time. It charges for extras for North American flights but not international. It is confusing for the occasional passenger who only gets on a airplane once or twice a decade.
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Old Apr 30, 2016, 4:50 am
  #252  
 
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True. United you buy lowest economy and you still get to select your seat, just like it always has been. Southwest you don't get to and in fact you line up and can pay extra to be in the front of the line. A cash grab no doubt.

I wonder how much revenue AC receives from the advanced seat pricing. If tango appeals to low cost traveler I expect fewer would pay extra. And since they don't charge on international flights - why not? - and frequent flyers get it waived - you have to wonder how small an audience they are aiming for. Budget conscious, infrequent flyers within North America. Who are less likely to pay for something that in some many other venues like concerts, sports events, and even other airlines you get as part of the price - knowing where you are sitting when you buy.

Instead air canada is going for a cash grab and receives negative publicity, and potentially upset customers, and stressed flight attendants. Seems like it is the cost of the cash grab and AC views it is worth it I guess. I don't defend AC on this if they want the cash grab then deal with the fall out too.
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Old Apr 30, 2016, 5:01 am
  #253  
 
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Thinking about the idea that the additional revenue helps reduce the pricing for all seats.

Perhaps this could be the case, but I have to wonder that AC may think oh we got X dollars from people paying for seat assignments lets reduce the price.

But if that is the case then indirectly we all benefit from the extra dollars for seat assignments, which means though we might also have to deal with the inconvenience when a problem occurs due to AC policy.

If you want a less stress experience without issues like this and families upset and seat switching then fly a mainline airline.

(Yes it does happen on main lines from time to time but far less frequently since they can select their seats when they buy. Just like I expect it happens pretty infrequently on AC international flights)
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Old Apr 30, 2016, 5:20 am
  #254  
 
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I still think that the best compromise is to offer free seat selections to families travelling together. Have a flag when you buy a child's ticket that applies to all tickets on the invoice. It won't make a huge difference in revenues, and will make help on time performance and limit the bad publicity.
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Old Apr 30, 2016, 6:34 am
  #255  
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Originally Posted by smallmj
I still think that the best compromise is to offer free seat selections to families travelling together. Have a flag when you buy a child's ticket that applies to all tickets on the invoice. It won't make a huge difference in revenues, and will make help on time performance and limit the bad publicity.
How is screwing over single travellers or couples who pay for seat selection a "compromise?"

Families aren't special. If families want to sit together they should pay for the privilege like the rest of us.
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