SFO-YVR Rouge rarely on time?
May 21, 2015, 2:58 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,002
Having worked under WS, we had a mid morning departure to SFO that was delayed probably 7-8 days out of every 10. UA would be late, but they would get the better times, WS was always third fiddle. Delays can run anywhere from 10 minutes to 2-3 hours, then when it's time to go you've got 15 minutes to push out or risk losing the slot. There was definitely a couple times where we didn't have a ground crew that was free and the flight missed it's slot.
If you really need to fly in the morning, fly UA. If you need to fly Rouge, try flying in the afternoon if possible. If none of those are options, pray
.
By contrast, I flew SFO-YVR first thing in the morning, no issues other than taxiing from SFO to OAK it felt so long.
Edit: Just realized you had the thread as SFO-YVR in the title, all my info applies still but at least your departure times should be a bit more certain at the originating station than the outpost.
If you really need to fly in the morning, fly UA. If you need to fly Rouge, try flying in the afternoon if possible. If none of those are options, pray
.By contrast, I flew SFO-YVR first thing in the morning, no issues other than taxiing from SFO to OAK it felt so long.
Edit: Just realized you had the thread as SFO-YVR in the title, all my info applies still but at least your departure times should be a bit more certain at the originating station than the outpost.
I'm disappointed in your first paragraph. If you had several hours notice of a delay, why the last minute panic to push back? Don't feel bad AC&UA have the last minute push back panic as well. These delays are published hours ahead of time.
I wonder if WS's moving YVR-SFO to the evening is to have better OTP? And/or maintain better a/c utilization.
May 21, 2015, 3:02 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
I need to do SFO-YVR, have never flown Rouge, checking last week or so this route mid-day is almost always delayed it seems 30-60+ minutes. Besides the lack of seat comfort, is Rouge unreliable operationally in general, or perhaps something about this route in particular?
But Rouge have hats!
May 21, 2015, 3:21 pm
#18
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: AC SE 200K, SPG PLAT, HH DIAMOND
Posts: 232
I've done this route 4 times in the last 2 months, always on time or within 15 minutes of schedule. I guess I was lucky with the weather.
The J class cabin comfort is not the best but hey, status miles are status miles...
The J class cabin comfort is not the best but hey, status miles are status miles...
May 22, 2015, 9:24 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
Only the 6:00 YVR-SFO UA flight is safe. The rest are a crap shoot. The afternoon RJ would often take large delays. I think that type has been replaced on this route.
I'm disappointed in your first paragraph. If you had several hours notice of a delay, why the last minute panic to push back? Don't feel bad AC&UA have the last minute push back panic as well. These delays are published hours ahead of time.
I wonder if WS's moving YVR-SFO to the evening is to have better OTP? And/or maintain better a/c utilization.
I'm disappointed in your first paragraph. If you had several hours notice of a delay, why the last minute panic to push back? Don't feel bad AC&UA have the last minute push back panic as well. These delays are published hours ahead of time.
I wonder if WS's moving YVR-SFO to the evening is to have better OTP? And/or maintain better a/c utilization.
So our flight used to be 940 I believe. At that time of day we'd usually have 3-4 crews on the TB side of YVR. HNL, OGG, SFO, LAS all left within about 15-20 minutes of each other.
Often we'd be told at 6am that there'd be a delay, doesn't mean we can accommodate it. Sometimes we'd say "ok we've got guys to load the flight at 9 as planned but then we have to leave it and move on". Other times we'd load it and only mid way through the load we'd get the radio call "SFO now departing at 1105". Problem is at 1000, 3-4 of our crews are off, the other 3-4 are busy with regularly scheduled flights. Sometimes you can keep a crew on OT and that's a quick solve.
It's a REALLY delicate balance as a ground handler. If everything runs on time, you should have no issues, but obviously both the airline and the handler are trying to keep costs low as the margins are already tight. Part of the load and leave it idea is that maybe you can get the lav guy and a couple supervisors to push the flight out when it's ready (but we can't just wait around, so you gotta call us like 10-15 minutes prior)...then customs starts requesting bag pulls and stuff. It just gets worse.
The other problem is we'd often get a call "hey we can go now (1025) but we have to push within 5 minutes", which wasn't enough time for us to get there, so sometimes we'd get there and just get sent away.
I'm sure WS is using their planes a bit better but the OTP has to be part of the reason to switching to a PM flight. This was a battle every day all season long, UA takes priority because they run SFO, makes sense, AC was basically second (or so it felt) and WS was third string. Lots of days we were delayed and without incident the flight left late and whatever, it's 20 minutes behind sked, for WS making very VERY few connections in SFO it's no biggie. But man, when you work 5 days a week and the flight is delayed 4 of them and at least 1 of those days it's a disastrous delay...yikes.
The other thing I'll say is, certain companies operate differently, when I was working at AC, they seemed a bit more concerned about getting the original flight out. Whereas when at WS, if I told them "hey we have 3 crews and you have 4 flights, pick your top 3" they'd often just pick the 3 that are on sked and allow the delayed flight to be low priority and potentially take a further delay. Better to only piss off one group of people than 2 or more. They also liked to prioritize YYC/YYZ over all others because of connection purposes and obviously from YYC the aircrafts often make onward runs so they don't want those delayed.
May 22, 2015, 10:46 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
That is not how it works.
During thin-out procedures ALL airlines are asked to move a certain percentage of their flights.
United at SFO (just as Air Canada at YYZ) are large enough that they can move and swap within their flights to get certain ones out while cancelling or delaying others
During thin-out procedures ALL airlines are asked to move a certain percentage of their flights.
United at SFO (just as Air Canada at YYZ) are large enough that they can move and swap within their flights to get certain ones out while cancelling or delaying others
May 22, 2015, 1:34 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
That is not how it works.
During thin-out procedures ALL airlines are asked to move a certain percentage of their flights.
United at SFO (just as Air Canada at YYZ) are large enough that they can move and swap within their flights to get certain ones out while cancelling or delaying others
During thin-out procedures ALL airlines are asked to move a certain percentage of their flights.
United at SFO (just as Air Canada at YYZ) are large enough that they can move and swap within their flights to get certain ones out while cancelling or delaying others
May 22, 2015, 4:57 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,002
By 8:00 when AC wants to leave, SFO is busy and the delay program is in full swing.
May 22, 2015, 8:30 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Bonvoy LTE
Posts: 1,881
Usually, departures to SFO before 7am are not impacted by the flow control program... I see this especially at SNA. Mon - Sat, the flight pushes at 6:45am for a 7am take-off (curfew ends at 7am). Normally no delays on that flight, unless SFO is below minimums. On Sundays, when the curfew ends at 8am, even the first UA flight out will incur delays. I've experienced delays of over 2 hours on Sunday mornings...