Why did AC stop Codesharing with TG?
Mar 30, 2015, 8:23 am
#1
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Why did AC stop Codesharing with TG?
I often wondered why AC stopped codesharing with AC. Most of you might have noticed, that for instance HKG-BKK is sold in conjunction with CX, who isn't even a Star Alliance partner. I thought maybe there were disputes around payments for codeshare seats, or other operational issues. However, this report sheds a different light on the matter:
http://www.wfw.com/wp-content/upload...ODowngrade.pdf
If indeed AC stopped codesharing partially or mostly because of safety audit issues (at that point unpublished), would it not be AC's responsibility to communicate their reasons for the codeshare withdrawals?
It leads me to further question the integrity of AC's communication. But, then, I have no proof and only making a conjecture here. An honest AC representative comment about this issue would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.wfw.com/wp-content/upload...ODowngrade.pdf
If indeed AC stopped codesharing partially or mostly because of safety audit issues (at that point unpublished), would it not be AC's responsibility to communicate their reasons for the codeshare withdrawals?
It leads me to further question the integrity of AC's communication. But, then, I have no proof and only making a conjecture here. An honest AC representative comment about this issue would be greatly appreciated.
Mar 30, 2015, 8:48 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,339
The TG codeshares always seemed to be a mess with mileage earning. I got burned on a TG codeshare from NRT-BKK before due to how the fare classes mapped. Maybe they got tired of missing mileage requests?
Mileage accrual mess aside, it's too bad they don't offer them any more.
Mileage accrual mess aside, it's too bad they don't offer them any more.
Mar 30, 2015, 9:00 am
#3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Platinum, Nexus/GE
Posts: 219
The news about TG safety audit are starting to surface. Japan put a ban in place to block new routes and charter flights.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-cl...ban-1427715681
http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-cl...ban-1427715681
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 30, 2015 at 10:18 am Reason: off topic
Mar 30, 2015, 9:07 am
#4
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The news about TG safety audit are starting to surface. Japan put a ban in place to block new routes and charter flights.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-cl...ban-1427715681
As a side note, I flew YUL-IST-BKK in February with TK and was pleasantly surprised. No mileage accrual on cheap fares but the price was too good to pass.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-cl...ban-1427715681
As a side note, I flew YUL-IST-BKK in February with TK and was pleasantly surprised. No mileage accrual on cheap fares but the price was too good to pass.
Here is the thread I started last week about the Thai government audit issues.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thai-...-carriers.html
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 30, 2015 at 10:18 am Reason: off topic
Mar 30, 2015, 9:09 am
#5
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Here is the thread I started last week about the Thai government audit issues.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thai-...-carriers.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thai-...-carriers.html
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 30, 2015 at 10:19 am
Mar 30, 2015, 9:12 am
#6
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Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
From the Bangkok Post (bolding mine)
Japan, Korea clip Thai flyers' wings
Quotes:
"Thailand's aviation industry has begun to feel the pinch of Thai authorities' failures to comply with global standards, as Japan and South Korea have taken pre-emptive action to curb air service by Thailand-registered...
"If the US Federal Aviation Administration downgrades Thailand to Category 2, Thai Airways could continue its flights to Los Angeles but could not add new US destinations or change the aircraft used on...
Mr Polivnick said US carriers would immediately have to end code-shares with Thai carriers where the Thai carriers were the operating carrier, as happened to the Philippines and South Korea
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...i-flyers-wings
Japan, Korea clip Thai flyers' wings
Quotes:
"Thailand's aviation industry has begun to feel the pinch of Thai authorities' failures to comply with global standards, as Japan and South Korea have taken pre-emptive action to curb air service by Thailand-registered...
"If the US Federal Aviation Administration downgrades Thailand to Category 2, Thai Airways could continue its flights to Los Angeles but could not add new US destinations or change the aircraft used on...
Mr Polivnick said US carriers would immediately have to end code-shares with Thai carriers where the Thai carriers were the operating carrier, as happened to the Philippines and South Korea
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...i-flyers-wings
Mar 30, 2015, 9:15 am
#7
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Posts: 4,153
Just for the uninitiated:
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 30, 2015 at 10:19 am
Mar 30, 2015, 10:03 am
#8
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Platinum, Nexus/GE
Posts: 219
I remember that there were a lot of rumors that TG would go bust in 2016. The government finally stepped in and forced TG to restructure and sell assets.
It is likely that as part of their restructure, they will have to review their routes and they might convert some additional regional routes to Thai Smile. Thai Smile is not part of *A.
From an external perspective, there seems to be a lot of unknowns and uncertainties with TG and I can appreciate that AC is staying clear for now. AC has *A code-shares with ANA and Asiana; I don't think they need TG.
It is likely that as part of their restructure, they will have to review their routes and they might convert some additional regional routes to Thai Smile. Thai Smile is not part of *A.
From an external perspective, there seems to be a lot of unknowns and uncertainties with TG and I can appreciate that AC is staying clear for now. AC has *A code-shares with ANA and Asiana; I don't think they need TG.
Mar 30, 2015, 11:12 am
#9
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
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Posts: 2,911
I am in and out of Thailand right now, and the issue of safety has blown up. The ICAO audit was rather grim and the Thai government was supposed to have provided its response a couple weeks ago. Either the response was not given or it was inadequate. The official ICAO report is due out in May. The situation is a mess and the government which is a now a military dictatorship finally clued in and says it will respond.
The situation touches on all aspects: Licensing inspections, standards, ATC. Keep in mind that several of the airports are owned by the military and the military has never answered to the civilian governments. In plain language it is a mess.
AC deserves credit for finding an alternative with CX albeit a limited one using the HKIA hub. The flights via Haneda and NRT just don't work for BKK as they require a long layover in Haneda or a 45 minute connection time in NRT (in respect to the YYZ originating flights). Calgary seems to be the only city where the schedule works.YVR works best with the connections into BKK via Asiana.
The biggest criticism of the current flight structure is that the connections via Japan via the AC website typically don't offer business class for the Bangkok connection. Only the Cathay options offer it on a regular basis out of HKIA and it beats TG hands down.
TG is a big mess.
The situation touches on all aspects: Licensing inspections, standards, ATC. Keep in mind that several of the airports are owned by the military and the military has never answered to the civilian governments. In plain language it is a mess.
AC deserves credit for finding an alternative with CX albeit a limited one using the HKIA hub. The flights via Haneda and NRT just don't work for BKK as they require a long layover in Haneda or a 45 minute connection time in NRT (in respect to the YYZ originating flights). Calgary seems to be the only city where the schedule works.YVR works best with the connections into BKK via Asiana.
The biggest criticism of the current flight structure is that the connections via Japan via the AC website typically don't offer business class for the Bangkok connection. Only the Cathay options offer it on a regular basis out of HKIA and it beats TG hands down.
TG is a big mess.
Mar 30, 2015, 11:14 am
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
I am in and out of Thailand right now, and the issue of safety has blown up. The ICAO audit was rather grim and the Thai government was supposed to have provided its response a couple weeks ago. Either the response was not given or it was inadequate. The official ICAO report is due out in May. The situation is a mess and the government which is a now a military dictatorship finally clued in and says it will respond.
The situation touches on all aspects: Licensing inspections, standards, ATC. Keep in mind that several of the airports are owned by the military and the military has never answered to the civilian governments. In plain language it is a mess.
AC deserves credit for finding an alternative with CX albeit a limited one using the HKIA hub. The flights via Haneda and NRT just don't work for BKK as they require a long layover in Haneda or a 45 minute connection time in NRT (in respect to the YYZ originating flights). Calgary seems to be the only city where the schedule works.YVR works best with the connections into BKK via Asiana.
The biggest criticism of the current flight structure is that the connections via Japan via the AC website typically don't offer business class for the Bangkok connection. Only the Cathay options offer it on a regular basis out of HKIA and it beats TG hands down.
TG is a big mess.
The situation touches on all aspects: Licensing inspections, standards, ATC. Keep in mind that several of the airports are owned by the military and the military has never answered to the civilian governments. In plain language it is a mess.
AC deserves credit for finding an alternative with CX albeit a limited one using the HKIA hub. The flights via Haneda and NRT just don't work for BKK as they require a long layover in Haneda or a 45 minute connection time in NRT (in respect to the YYZ originating flights). Calgary seems to be the only city where the schedule works.YVR works best with the connections into BKK via Asiana.
The biggest criticism of the current flight structure is that the connections via Japan via the AC website typically don't offer business class for the Bangkok connection. Only the Cathay options offer it on a regular basis out of HKIA and it beats TG hands down.
TG is a big mess.
Mar 30, 2015, 11:16 am
#11
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bowmanville, ON
Programs: E50K, Hyatt Platinum, NEXUS/GE, Amex Platinum, CX Gold (till July 2015), Mlife Gold
Posts: 58
Just for the uninitiated:
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
[B]DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?[/B
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
[B]DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?[/B
Mar 30, 2015, 11:18 am
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
I actually flew One-2 Go about 6 years from BKK (the old airport) to Trang. We were going to a conference organized by one of our toy suppliers, so they booked that flight. I did some checking on them and was a bit worried after I saw their safety record. We had to go around twice before the crew managed to land. If it hadn't be pouring rain, I would have kissed the ground when I disembarked.
Mar 30, 2015, 11:28 am
#13
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bowmanville, ON
Programs: E50K, Hyatt Platinum, NEXUS/GE, Amex Platinum, CX Gold (till July 2015), Mlife Gold
Posts: 58
Mar 30, 2015, 1:48 pm
#14
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,483
Just for the uninitiated:
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?
TG is actually owned by the government of Thailand, in fact their Ministry of Finance.
The international audit issues are related to the Thai Civil Aviation Authority who seems to not follow international process and standards in various areas of their competence.
So, it's not that TG was directly targeted, but if the country of Thailand is blacklisted in EU and US, we are going to not be able to fly any of the Thai carriers to many international destinations.
The four Thai carriers themselves appear frustrated (or they say they are anyways), and want to take matters in their own hands.
Since TG is the one that matters the most (and what sane human would set foot on a One-To-Go plane?!), it's fantastical to see essentially two government departments not be able to get their houses in order in this matter.
It's all rooted in nepotism, gross corruption, a "mai pben rai" (doesn't matter) attitude and an insane amount of national pride making people in charge believe that Thailand is the centre of the universe and the world will sing to their tune (much to do with history, and even more to do with US cow-towing to Thai whim because of their strategic importance).
So...all that is to say, Thailand is a mess, has always been a mess, and happily will continue to be a mess, but in this case it's affecting us as frequent fliers.
Back on topic now.
DID AC KNOW about safety concerns and therefore cancelled codeshares with TG last year, or were there only administrative reasons behind that decision?
I'll play Devil's advocate and ask: Does AC no longer need TG for codeshares? TG has been in financial difficulty for a while now and maybe AC was having trouble collecting receivables from TG. Now, with flights to PEK, ICN, HND, NRT & HKG, they can get more financially stable partners.
