AC FA uses Weight & Bal excuse for on board, last second UG of woman and her grandson
Mar 26, 2015, 2:58 pm
#46
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Can someone please tell me what this "special moment" you all are talking about is? I've been flying AC for 10+ years, on mainline, rouge, to Europe, Asia, in Y, Y+ and J etc etc... And I have never experienced this special moment.
Please post a photo of your AC Special Moment
Please post a photo of your AC Special Moment
Mar 26, 2015, 4:05 pm
#47
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,342
I've been moved up to J twice over the years on an E90/E75 for weight and balance; once I was called up by the gate agent, and once was onboard from the SD. I don't think the FA would be making this up, as it seems reasonably common on Embraer aircraft, and sometimes doesn't seem to happen until right before departure. While it may not be a huge difference in weight distribution, if the standard operating procedures say they need to move 2 people up, that's what they do, as many things in the airline industry and done with an abundance of caution (as they should).
Op-ups for weight/balance or oversells are an opportunity to reward AC's most loyal customers (i.e. highest status), so hopefully this was the case. If the FA overlooked higher status members in the same zone and upgraded two non-status passengers, that's disappointing. But without seeing the manifest, we wouldn't know if higher status members in the same zone were overlooked.
Op-ups for weight/balance or oversells are an opportunity to reward AC's most loyal customers (i.e. highest status), so hopefully this was the case. If the FA overlooked higher status members in the same zone and upgraded two non-status passengers, that's disappointing. But without seeing the manifest, we wouldn't know if higher status members in the same zone were overlooked.
Mar 26, 2015, 4:20 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 17
I’ve been a strong defender of AC’s business prerogative and mindset w/ their Front cabin product. BUT, When you trumpet your Exec cabin as exclusive, more aligned to deserving passengers, you better get it right.
Last night (3/25) AC1263 MCOYOW (Mainline E90) …… Door is about to close and Lead FA goes to back and takes woman and her grandson to fill 2 unoccupied J seats on the E90. I saw the grandson’s eyes triple in size and a huge fist pump when he realized he was being moved to J. The lead FA was on a power trip and didn’t like my question of how long they were taking to turn an E90.
I asked FA if proper company procedure was followed when she selected PAX for onboard UG. She said it was done for Weight and Balance. What a joke. The E90 was ~97% filled for a 2h30m mission and she selects an 8 year old and his grandma for weight and balance.
My beef is has NOTHING to do with not getting the UG (I was with wife and child and would not have taken). My issue is with an airline still having these incidents after they changed the game and beat their chest about who they are and where they’re going. I don’t fly as much as some here but was hoping for noticeable operational changes inline with all the posturing.
Amateur hour for AC at MCO seems par for the course as noted by multiple recent posts (some from SEs). The whole AC operation after checkin in MCO is what you’d expect from Mickey Mouse airways – Gate agent seemed like he had never flown before. The departure screen is entirely useless and misleading with no account for, ummm, reality!? For example, our gate was showing Ottawa CLOSED 15 mins before scheduled departure when the inbound had not even arrived. Then showed Montreal as destination because YUL was on the gate after YOW but YOW flight hadn’t even boarded. Must have been 5 people come up and try to board YUL though YOW plane was on the stand. They have an automated call to check carryons which makes NO sense when there are 20 kids on the plane. So, we waste another 20 mins tagging carryon baggage. Knowing more than the actual employees, I don’t check my carryon and of course, we leave with many overhead bins empty.
I get it Orlando is a leisure destination. Doesn’t mean an airline has to staff it with people who have no idea what they’re doing. Doesn’t mean FAs can just pull up the passengers they want. It’s a leisure destination for VS and BA as well, though they were able to load their 777s and 747s in a professional, intelligent manner a few gates over.
I’m not here to make a big deal about a silly 3hour flight or swear off AC for life, but If AC is ready and willing to expect more from their passengers, they better be prepared for those passengers to expect more of them.
Last night they failed.
Last night (3/25) AC1263 MCOYOW (Mainline E90) …… Door is about to close and Lead FA goes to back and takes woman and her grandson to fill 2 unoccupied J seats on the E90. I saw the grandson’s eyes triple in size and a huge fist pump when he realized he was being moved to J. The lead FA was on a power trip and didn’t like my question of how long they were taking to turn an E90.
I asked FA if proper company procedure was followed when she selected PAX for onboard UG. She said it was done for Weight and Balance. What a joke. The E90 was ~97% filled for a 2h30m mission and she selects an 8 year old and his grandma for weight and balance.
My beef is has NOTHING to do with not getting the UG (I was with wife and child and would not have taken). My issue is with an airline still having these incidents after they changed the game and beat their chest about who they are and where they’re going. I don’t fly as much as some here but was hoping for noticeable operational changes inline with all the posturing.
Amateur hour for AC at MCO seems par for the course as noted by multiple recent posts (some from SEs). The whole AC operation after checkin in MCO is what you’d expect from Mickey Mouse airways – Gate agent seemed like he had never flown before. The departure screen is entirely useless and misleading with no account for, ummm, reality!? For example, our gate was showing Ottawa CLOSED 15 mins before scheduled departure when the inbound had not even arrived. Then showed Montreal as destination because YUL was on the gate after YOW but YOW flight hadn’t even boarded. Must have been 5 people come up and try to board YUL though YOW plane was on the stand. They have an automated call to check carryons which makes NO sense when there are 20 kids on the plane. So, we waste another 20 mins tagging carryon baggage. Knowing more than the actual employees, I don’t check my carryon and of course, we leave with many overhead bins empty.
I get it Orlando is a leisure destination. Doesn’t mean an airline has to staff it with people who have no idea what they’re doing. Doesn’t mean FAs can just pull up the passengers they want. It’s a leisure destination for VS and BA as well, though they were able to load their 777s and 747s in a professional, intelligent manner a few gates over.
I’m not here to make a big deal about a silly 3hour flight or swear off AC for life, but If AC is ready and willing to expect more from their passengers, they better be prepared for those passengers to expect more of them.
Last night they failed.
Oh heavens! Did a non-elite enter your elitist sphere? *faints, farts, farts*
Mar 26, 2015, 4:27 pm
#49
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
There is a difference between unauthorized "move-ups", and the relocation of Customers at the request of the Flight Deck (and essentially authorized) by Load Control for the purpose of weight & balance. It is not an uncommon scenario on the Embraer. It was also a semi-regular occurrence on lightly booked CRJ's - but of course no J/C involved.
Mar 26, 2015, 4:32 pm
#50
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Why lie to Cows face....no point?! Imagine if she had said...."the pilot was wanted a little more weight past COG so I decided a grandmother and her grandson would love that chance." I know Cow.....he would have been stoked.
Imagine if she said to Cow that she saw an elderly lady traveling with her grandson....and she thought he'd be excited for the short trip....Cow might not have been AS excited, but no doubt he'd understand.
Mar 26, 2015, 4:55 pm
#51
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Have seen it on 1/3 of my Embaer flights.....but moving up a kid isn't W/B....it is something else.
Why lie to Cows face....no point?! Imagine if she had said...."the pilot was wanted a little more weight past COG so I decided a grandmother and her grandson would love that chance." I know Cow.....he would have been stoked.
Imagine if she said to Cow that she saw an elderly lady traveling with her grandson....and she thought he'd be excited for the short trip....Cow might not have been AS excited, but no doubt he'd understand.
Why lie to Cows face....no point?! Imagine if she had said...."the pilot was wanted a little more weight past COG so I decided a grandmother and her grandson would love that chance." I know Cow.....he would have been stoked.
Imagine if she said to Cow that she saw an elderly lady traveling with her grandson....and she thought he'd be excited for the short trip....Cow might not have been AS excited, but no doubt he'd understand.
Last edited by FlyerTalker683455; Mar 26, 2015 at 5:27 pm
Mar 26, 2015, 4:58 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Dia Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,521
Mar 26, 2015, 5:13 pm
#55
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Sorry....clouds...
Mar 26, 2015, 5:17 pm
#57
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: YVR
Programs: AC S100K
Posts: 978
There are standard weights assigned for adult males (summer and winter), females (summer and winter), children and infants.
The W&B tables and design of commercial aircraft should permit enough margin that, if passenger weights differ than the tables, there will be no safety problem. But the load must be balanced and check-out so.
How much margin is in the tables you may ask...
Mar 26, 2015, 5:26 pm
#58
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
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Posts: 16,772
Or, AC should state re-seating to J is at the discretion of the crew. I thought Ben L wanted reports of these occurrences.
AC are not going to appreciate a business direction towards an exclusive front cabin while their crew move random PAX into said cabin. NOT saying that's the case here. But, it's worthwhile to bring to light IMO.
AC are not going to appreciate a business direction towards an exclusive front cabin while their crew move random PAX into said cabin. NOT saying that's the case here. But, it's worthwhile to bring to light IMO.
The W&B issue may have been legit, or it may not have been, but with a 95%+ full flight, it sounds a bit fishy; I've only ever seen W&B on very lightly loaded small planes, plus one BOG-YYZ flight where the ground crew completely screwed up the cargo loading.
Combine FFs' current general sensitivity on the issue of upgrades with an incident that seems like it might fit with a pattern of AC not being true to its word and you get the frustration that has been expressed in this thread.
Mar 26, 2015, 5:27 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
OP's post shouldn't be seen as dwelling on the good fortune of the two folk. He's taking aim at AC's publicly stated positions and commitments and holding AC to them.
My guess is that this type of criticism concerning op ups is going to pop up on a regular basis, so it's worth remembering that it's not driven by DYKWIA-itis, but rather by lingering discontent that can only be sated by AC delivering on its promises (or policies).
Mar 26, 2015, 5:45 pm
#60
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LAS, ZQN
Programs: UA PP (2MM), BA gold
Posts: 2,199
The passenger cabin is broken down into zones. As part of the final weight and balance check calculations are made that take into account baggage and cargo load and placement as well as the number of passengers seated in each zone. I have been on numerous flights where someone from the back was moved to the front, and even a few where people had to move from the front to the rear.