AC FA uses Weight & Bal excuse for on board, last second UG of woman and her grandson
Apr 29, 2015, 9:15 am
#212
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
Oh, you were on the flight too? Or are you guessing?
It'll be easy for Ben to see if this is total nonsense based on if the flight showed leaving with >6 empty in J or not. If it didn't, it wouldn't even be a possibility.
Or... he can spend his day more productively than trying to prove to the internet that no one less entitled than themselves got a free upgrade.
It'll be easy for Ben to see if this is total nonsense based on if the flight showed leaving with >6 empty in J or not. If it didn't, it wouldn't even be a possibility.
Or... he can spend his day more productively than trying to prove to the internet that no one less entitled than themselves got a free upgrade.
Apr 29, 2015, 9:17 am
#213
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: aeroplan Elite, Priority Club. HHonours
Posts: 314
You don't have to be an AC buff to recognise what is going on here. Boeing is not "buying" the E90's- they are taking them as a trade in for the new Boeings.
This is same as your local Ford dealer taking your Chrysler as trade in towards cost of a new Ford !
May 22, 2015, 9:44 pm
#214
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere between YXU and YYZ
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hilton Diamond AC*75K
Posts: 618
I just did YEG-YVR this week on a 50-60% full E90.
Plane loaded with 2 in J.
I was sitting in 12C (no one in 12A)
I saw SD chat with pilot and then go towards back with paper in hand and then 4 people were moved up to J.
Pretty sure non-status as I didn't see any of them get up when zone 1-2 was called for boarding.
I had my two seats to myself and only a short flight so only mildly annoyed and did not say anything. Although I was hungry and would have appreciated the cheese plate
I do not think this practice is handled the way it should and should definitely be addressed. There needs to be a set process to op-up status pax first and move people from back into those now empty seats. Even with a double move it really is not that complicated or time consuming, as its only going to be a handful of people at most. So they can't use that as an excuse.
Has Ben ever addressed this? (too lazy to go through whole thread)
Plane loaded with 2 in J.
I was sitting in 12C (no one in 12A)
I saw SD chat with pilot and then go towards back with paper in hand and then 4 people were moved up to J.
Pretty sure non-status as I didn't see any of them get up when zone 1-2 was called for boarding.
I had my two seats to myself and only a short flight so only mildly annoyed and did not say anything. Although I was hungry and would have appreciated the cheese plate
I do not think this practice is handled the way it should and should definitely be addressed. There needs to be a set process to op-up status pax first and move people from back into those now empty seats. Even with a double move it really is not that complicated or time consuming, as its only going to be a handful of people at most. So they can't use that as an excuse.
Has Ben ever addressed this? (too lazy to go through whole thread)
Last edited by shawneve; May 22, 2015 at 10:13 pm
May 23, 2015, 5:49 am
#215
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: fwp blood diamond, dykwia uranium
Posts: 7,251
I’ve been a strong defender of AC’s business prerogative and mindset w/ their Front cabin product. BUT, When you trumpet your Exec cabin as exclusive, more aligned to deserving passengers, you better get it right.
Last night (3/25) AC1263 MCOYOW (Mainline E90) …… Door is about to close and Lead FA goes to back and takes woman and her grandson to fill 2 unoccupied J seats on the E90. I saw the grandson’s eyes triple in size and a huge fist pump when he realized he was being moved to J. The lead FA was on a power trip and didn’t like my question of how long they were taking to turn an E90.
I asked FA if proper company procedure was followed when she selected PAX for onboard UG. She said it was done for Weight and Balance. What a joke. The E90 was ~97% filled for a 2h30m mission and she selects an 8 year old and his grandma for weight and balance.
My beef is has NOTHING to do with not getting the UG (I was with wife and child and would not have taken). My issue is with an airline still having these incidents after they changed the game and beat their chest about who they are and where they’re going. I don’t fly as much as some here but was hoping for noticeable operational changes inline with all the posturing.
Amateur hour for AC at MCO seems par for the course as noted by multiple recent posts (some from SEs). The whole AC operation after checkin in MCO is what you’d expect from Mickey Mouse airways – Gate agent seemed like he had never flown before. The departure screen is entirely useless and misleading with no account for, ummm, reality!? For example, our gate was showing Ottawa CLOSED 15 mins before scheduled departure when the inbound had not even arrived. Then showed Montreal as destination because YUL was on the gate after YOW but YOW flight hadn’t even boarded. Must have been 5 people come up and try to board YUL though YOW plane was on the stand. They have an automated call to check carryons which makes NO sense when there are 20 kids on the plane. So, we waste another 20 mins tagging carryon baggage. Knowing more than the actual employees, I don’t check my carryon and of course, we leave with many overhead bins empty.
I get it Orlando is a leisure destination. Doesn’t mean an airline has to staff it with people who have no idea what they’re doing. Doesn’t mean FAs can just pull up the passengers they want. It’s a leisure destination for VS and BA as well, though they were able to load their 777s and 747s in a professional, intelligent manner a few gates over.
I’m not here to make a big deal about a silly 3hour flight or swear off AC for life, but If AC is ready and willing to expect more from their passengers, they better be prepared for those passengers to expect more of them.
Last night they failed.
Last night (3/25) AC1263 MCOYOW (Mainline E90) …… Door is about to close and Lead FA goes to back and takes woman and her grandson to fill 2 unoccupied J seats on the E90. I saw the grandson’s eyes triple in size and a huge fist pump when he realized he was being moved to J. The lead FA was on a power trip and didn’t like my question of how long they were taking to turn an E90.
I asked FA if proper company procedure was followed when she selected PAX for onboard UG. She said it was done for Weight and Balance. What a joke. The E90 was ~97% filled for a 2h30m mission and she selects an 8 year old and his grandma for weight and balance.
My beef is has NOTHING to do with not getting the UG (I was with wife and child and would not have taken). My issue is with an airline still having these incidents after they changed the game and beat their chest about who they are and where they’re going. I don’t fly as much as some here but was hoping for noticeable operational changes inline with all the posturing.
Amateur hour for AC at MCO seems par for the course as noted by multiple recent posts (some from SEs). The whole AC operation after checkin in MCO is what you’d expect from Mickey Mouse airways – Gate agent seemed like he had never flown before. The departure screen is entirely useless and misleading with no account for, ummm, reality!? For example, our gate was showing Ottawa CLOSED 15 mins before scheduled departure when the inbound had not even arrived. Then showed Montreal as destination because YUL was on the gate after YOW but YOW flight hadn’t even boarded. Must have been 5 people come up and try to board YUL though YOW plane was on the stand. They have an automated call to check carryons which makes NO sense when there are 20 kids on the plane. So, we waste another 20 mins tagging carryon baggage. Knowing more than the actual employees, I don’t check my carryon and of course, we leave with many overhead bins empty.
I get it Orlando is a leisure destination. Doesn’t mean an airline has to staff it with people who have no idea what they’re doing. Doesn’t mean FAs can just pull up the passengers they want. It’s a leisure destination for VS and BA as well, though they were able to load their 777s and 747s in a professional, intelligent manner a few gates over.
I’m not here to make a big deal about a silly 3hour flight or swear off AC for life, but If AC is ready and willing to expect more from their passengers, they better be prepared for those passengers to expect more of them.
Last night they failed.
if you tried upgrading with an instrument you are right to be frustrated, otherwise, i don't get this attitude that elites are entitled j if seats are open. one of the reasons (there are many) i have taken all my business from ac and to united is because of the free upgrades, mind you into a really mediocre j cabin, but with ac i was fine with the upgrade policy. i had choices in other airlines at the time and i chose to stick with ac (until this new altitude nonsense)
You show me the factual evidence underpinning a move of 250 lbs on a E90 booked 94 or 95/97 on a 2h30 mission. Why is the CG on AC's E90s predicated on moving a small kid and small grandma 20 rows?
I don't care what some FA said. That's BS. The plane was scattered with 225lb guys (like myself) and 30 pound toddlers.
Further, let's just assume this was a load issue, Are there not procedures in place for last second FA upgrades? Why not move Grandma and the 8 year old to preferred seats and move an Elite to J?
I don't care what some FA said. That's BS. The plane was scattered with 225lb guys (like myself) and 30 pound toddlers.
Further, let's just assume this was a load issue, Are there not procedures in place for last second FA upgrades? Why not move Grandma and the 8 year old to preferred seats and move an Elite to J?
dude, w/b counts a pax at a certain flat weight. a bag is 23 pounds no matter what, i think humans are all 150lbs. it's indiscriminate. it's about averages. it may sound silly but it's worked for decades. that's the way every airline in the world does it.
May 23, 2015, 7:32 am
#216
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,315
those two people that got upgraded could have been employees, super elites, vip, etcetc. there could have been no show j pax at the last minute, or it very well could have been for w/b reasons. it could have been so the last 2 seats in Y could be used as crew rest seats (i've seen this on the cra 705 quite a bit).
if you tried upgrading with an instrument you are right to be frustrated, otherwise, i don't get this attitude that elites are entitled j if seats are open. one of the reasons (there are many) i have taken all my business from ac and to united is because of the free upgrades, mind you into a really mediocre j cabin, but with ac i was fine with the upgrade policy. i had choices in other airlines at the time and i chose to stick with ac (until this new altitude nonsense)
if you tried upgrading with an instrument you are right to be frustrated, otherwise, i don't get this attitude that elites are entitled j if seats are open. one of the reasons (there are many) i have taken all my business from ac and to united is because of the free upgrades, mind you into a really mediocre j cabin, but with ac i was fine with the upgrade policy. i had choices in other airlines at the time and i chose to stick with ac (until this new altitude nonsense)
The issue is that IF they're going to do an operational upgrade, it should be by status.
Last edited by canadiancow; May 23, 2015 at 11:34 am Reason: typo
May 23, 2015, 10:57 am
#217
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: fwp blood diamond, dykwia uranium
Posts: 7,251
May 23, 2015, 11:38 am
#218
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,315
First, he never said he was using an instrument, which is the clearly stated currency required for Y-J on AC domestic/transborder flights. Period. Secondly why shouldn't employees be on the top of the op up list? Disclaimer I once was an AC employee but now I run a small business and I'm a UA 1K but honestly for a 3 hour flight.......
2. The employee discussion also has nothing to do with this, because no one involved was an employee (had they been an employee eligible for J on a flight with no one in J, they would have been boarded in J from the start).
The issue here is that they are just upgrading regular passengers, and they're ignoring status.