After Burner

I would choose AA DFW-HNL or DFW-OGG over UA. 4 daily flights I believe. But it involves an obscenely early morning flight to DFW.

YYC-OGG service exists in theory. But in practice the J cabin is usually sold out so you can't get a seat at any price.

Adam Smith

Re the speculation on whether or not YYC-OGG will remain mainline. Take it for whatever you think it's worth, but my parents make that trip regularly and on their last trip in January, the FA told my dad that next winter the route will be Rouged. Surprising to me as I've felt like there were probably a lot of people in YYC who, like my parents, were paying full J fares to fly there, which would make it worth AC's while to fly it mainline.

Since I've been looking at making the trip myself in January 2016, I'd also be quite disappointed if it got Rouged.

vernonc

Since several posters have talked about YYC-OGG, any advise on transit as I will be on this route (YYZ-YYC-OGG) and return in a couple of weeks. Do we have to pick up bags and then do US CBP or is it like YYZ where your bags are on a screen and you don't have to physically drag them around? Will 2 hrs be enough to do the US CBP stuff and head to the lounge? All of us have Nexus. Same question with Canada customs on the reverse.
And lounges in OGG - either Star Alliance or Priority pass?
Thanks

tracon

You pick up bags, then clear US Customs.
2 hours is more than enough. The only lounge is the domestic lounge. If you go to the lounge, your bags will go around the carousel until you or an employee picks them up.
On the return, you pick up your bags, leave the customs hall, drop bags on the transfer belt.
The only lounge in OGG is the HA lounge. It is not listed on the PP website.

why fly

Another way for eastern flyers is IAD it also has a 767-400 with layflat seats. For UA flyers that means we fly yyz-hnl for $570cnd and upgrade. Done it twice in the last 6 months.
even for AC flyers its a great mileage run, and beats AC Rouge anyday. There is a thread in premium runs for YYZ-HNL in business class for $1100 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...70-p-fare.html

CloudsBelow

Not when "Full J" ("C" in this case) for a 7 hour Flat bed are able to command a whopping $1,700 each way. That's full fare, flexible Exec First seat for $250/hour. Doubt there's another route in AC's entire network where C/J can only garner that price point. AC should have Rouged those kind of garbage yields
IADHNL is daily over Xmas but reverts to 1/2*week outside that window.

Diabeetus

Is YYC-OGG the only AC flight to Hawaii left that hasn't been Rouged?

PLeblond

Yes.

And with all things on Rouging questions: If the yield was there, there would be no need to Rouge the flight.

tracon

YVR-KOA is mainline.

PLeblond

oops. My bad. I thought all YVR routes were Rouge.

Thanks for the correction.

ridefar

Sorry, but why would you say this. rouge is about reducing AC's costs. When is there even *not* a reason to rouge? Even if they run at 100% load factor on a route, why not rouge a route if costs go down and profit goes up? AFAICS the only reason they don't rouge everything except long haul TPAC and TATL is the pilot's contract. There was no *need* to gut the Altitude program either, but they did. Your statement doesn't make sense.

PLeblond

I would refer you to Rouge thread for more information on this, but since it has about 1,000,000,000 posts...

AC has 2 markets.

a) High yield business travel, where they compete on Transborder flights with UA/DL/AA and, longhaul international business travel, where they compete with all the other similar types.

b) Leisure O/D and occasional travel people.

Most countries are large enough for carriers to chose one or the other, AC reached a point that if they wanted growth they need to compete in both markets.

They are the only airline in the domestic market offering the features of a classic business airline (real J, lounges, network to international destinations, etc. etc. etc.) As long as there is a market in Canada domestically, and these services are demanded/offered on transborder, and longhaul international, this is their business model.

The Rouge routes are basically routes where the higher yield (usually business) dollars were not present, AND where they were facing competition from lower cost competition.

I believe that as long as people are willing to pay for J and full fare Y on routes, AC will continue offering it. As soon as the yields on a route falls bellow a certain level, coupled with lower cost competition then Rouge becomes the viable solution.

I have stated before on other threads that as long as people are willing to buy J, AC will continue to offer it. They day that market evaporates, they should move to an all Y model like Westjet or Jet Blue.

Basically, the geographic and population make up in Canada means AC has to be both. I do not see the them moving to an all Rouge model as long as people pay for the mainline model.

ridefar

You are saying that given a chance to increase profit AC will a) not do that b) ignore its fiduciary duty to shareholders.

rouge is this:

- Seat "A" sells for $10
- Mainline AC cost is $8
- rouge cost is $7

Which product do you stock to supply "A"? There is no world in which you choose mainline over rouge (pilot contract aside).

mochishiro

as a first time AC flyer, was pleased to see flights in august are $425 HNL-YVR roundtrip (vs. $800 united). was surprised that you get nickled and dimed for seat selection etc... anyone know if *G will get any kind of seating or check in benefits on rouge?

winnipegrev

So you think if Rouge is good for one route it must be good for all routes? That's ridiculous.

Here's the typical YVR-Hawaii passenger
-WS seat 'A' sells for $10 (no IFE, slimline), mainline AC 763 sells for $11
-Passenger chooses WS as they just want a cheap seat. They don't care about 2-3-2, AVOD
-AC changes price to $10 just to try and fill the seats. The route underperforms relative to the rest of the network

So it goes to Rouge where AC can charge the same $10 but leads to higher ROI thanks to 29% lower CASM.

If AC tried doing that on many other routes (YYZ-YYC, YYZ-LGA) it wouldn't work. AC would have to slash prices far more than Rouge CASM savings to fill the seats. Travellers on some routes will pay more for mainline than Rouge, but not all routes.

Seems pretty simple to me.