JNB and NBO in the works?

Old Dec 11, 2014, 12:19 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by LittleYHZ
Keep in mind AC would know how many passengers are going Canada -> wherever connecting to another airline in the alliance and hitting JNB and NBO.
They would have a LOT of data from all the connections to JNB/CPT that people take via Europe or Washington.

They even have data from the LHR codeshare that they have with SAA (which I'm flying out tonight on).

I would really like them to make a business case out of this.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 12:38 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by cooleddie
Also it may be possible that the route is YYZ-NBO-JNB.
Not a chance IMO. There's little doubt if AC adds SA, it will be YYZJNB. No a/c capability issues YYZ to SA, It's the return that's in question.

This is very similar to QF's DFW-SYD route. QF opted for BNE and more passengers/payload. Will AC opt for NBO/CPT or go at it non-stop?

Well ..... Assuming they even launch the route, that is.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 1:02 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SparseFlyer
1 free MLL drink to whoever can find out what this is:
It's either customer profitability against miles flown or probability of losing your luggage versus number of times you check your luggage.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by The Lev
It's either customer profitability against miles flown or probability of losing your luggage versus number of times you check your luggage.
You've inspired me to do another thread (and stop hijacking this one).

On the other hand, your second guess is actually quite good.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 1:25 pm
  #35  
 
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personally as someone with fam in CPT I would love to see a YYZ>JNB>CPT>YYZ triangle routing 3-4 times per week, that would be great.
I don't see AC flying into NBO (or anywhere in Africa outside of SA) I really don't.

Last edited by YYZMIAZRH; Dec 11, 2014 at 2:16 pm
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 2:01 pm
  #36  
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AC would do better going into CPT rather than JNB. Mornings at JNB are a zoo as three or four A380s, a half dozen 777s, and another half dozen 747s and a bunch of A330/340s all arrive between 5a and 9a! Immigration lines are epic. Compare with arriving at CPT where there are three or four wide bodies arriving between the same hours, I just strolled through immigration! Onward connections are easy to JNB and a few provincial towns.

Of course one of the problems with flights to SAfrica is that the planes sit on the ground all day losing money! Never know why someone from Europe doesn't fly a daytime flight down there, depart at 8a and arrive around 9p...then depart before midnight to get back to Europe by noon next day.

If AC had rights to CPT or even JNB via a European city (with 5th freedom rights) it could do a regular early evening departure from YYZ, get into LHR or FRA or MUC at dawn, provision the plane and depart by mid-morning. Return flight could be a mid-to-late afternoon flight back across the Atlantic giving high utilization for a 788. This is much like NZ flies to LHR via LAX, giving passengers a land break for a couple of hours in the mid-point terminal.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 3:20 pm
  #37  
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AC has lots of planes coming and they need new routes so JNB seems as good as any.
Also from the number of deals on JNB in business class for the last year from YYZ, makes you wonder if other airlines have been aware of AC interest?

KLM has had lots of $2500 business class sales to JNB from Vancouver Calgary and Toronto.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 5:45 pm
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Originally Posted by why fly
KLM has had lots of $2500 business class sales to JNB from Vancouver Calgary and Toronto.
AF and KLM have too many premium seats going empty into Africa, as well as being stung by EK and the other Gulf carriers across their route systems, so they've been deep discounting these routes to fill those seats, not to scare off AC. At the moment, things are fairly normal price-wise because there's considerable demand during the SAfrican summer, European/NAmerican winter.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 6:34 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
Of course one of the problems with flights to SAfrica is that the planes sit on the ground all day losing money! Never know why someone from Europe doesn't fly a daytime flight down there, depart at 8a and arrive around 9p...then depart before midnight to get back to Europe by noon next day.

If AC had rights to CPT or even JNB via a European city (with 5th freedom rights) it could do a regular early evening departure from YYZ, get into LHR or FRA or MUC at dawn, provision the plane and depart by mid-morning. Return flight could be a mid-to-late afternoon flight back across the Atlantic giving high utilization for a 788. This is much like NZ flies to LHR via LAX, giving passengers a land break for a couple of hours in the mid-point terminal.
Similar to east bound Trans Atlantic flights, overnight flight maximizes connection opportunities on both ends and saves traveler a full day and is preferred to a day flight. I guess the extra yield compensates for the lower utilization. This is the same for flights to South America where planes arrive in the morning sit there all day and fly back in the evening.

AC wouldn't extend a flight from LHR/FRA/MUC to South Africa since day time flight don't work well and it'd be a long trip for the crew, more than a week (extra cost for hotels) and requires an extra plane for a flight that's not much more competitive than other one stop options which would lead me to think it's be better just let LH handle it from there.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 7:16 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
AF and KLM have too many premium seats going empty into Africa
Of course, you have facts and figures to back this claim up, right?
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
Of course, you have facts and figures to back this claim up, right?
I often have trouble getting J seats on SN's BRUKGL and KGLEBBBRU
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 8:58 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
AF and KLM have too many premium seats going empty into Africa, as well as being stung by EK and the other Gulf carriers across their route systems, so they've been deep discounting these routes to fill those seats, not to scare off AC. At the moment, things are fairly normal price-wise because there's considerable demand during the SAfrican summer, European/NAmerican winter.
See and this is just it. JNB would completely route Emirates. Nobody is going to spend 25-40 hours in transit when they can do it in 16 nonstop. It would also put the wash to KLMs traffic to the region from Canada.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 9:06 pm
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Originally Posted by LittleYHZ
See and this is just it. JNB would completely route Emirates. Nobody is going to spend 25-40 hours in transit when they can do it in 16 nonstop. It would also put the wash to KLMs traffic to the region from Canada.
...as well as QR and SN.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 9:21 pm
  #44  
 
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I'm going to JNB on paid business class for work first week of January. Did it last year too, would be nice if a non stop opened up, lots of companies pay paid J on this route.
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 9:53 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by why fly
AC has lots of planes coming and they need new routes so JNB seems as good as any.
Also from the number of deals on JNB in business class for the last year from YYZ, makes you wonder if other airlines have been aware of AC interest?

KLM has had lots of $2500 business class sales to JNB from Vancouver Calgary and Toronto.
... They also have *lots* leaving the fleet.... (ie, rouge)
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