Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

AC says Elites "cheapen" their business class

AC says Elites "cheapen" their business class

Old Oct 27, 2014, 10:29 am
  #166  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: AC SE MM, too many others
Posts: 1,407
Originally Posted by Neil791
No toy tossing?? Seriously?? The majority of posts in this thread have been about how 'sad' people feel that the big, bad corporation is taking away some of the toys all of the children were used to playing with in favour of giving them to other children who wish to pay more for them.

There have been so many posts in various threads about how there should be less inclusion in the lounges, less inclusion in the J cabin, etc etc etc yet when it begins to happen the same people are moaning about having their feelings hurt because a real person from the nasty corporation has taken the time to respond instead of having an unpaid intern monitor the social media feeds.

As valuable as FT is for sharing information it can quickly become incredibly toxic when people feel they've somehow been wronged by an airline. If you're really so upset with the way either of the Ben's have posted on here to the point where your view of AC has changed then walk away, take your corporate/personal travel with you and don't forget to turn off the light when you leave.
+1. Average Canadians will correctly look at us on this board as a bunch of people whining about access to business class seats for fares that are largely paid for by others.

There is lots of nonsense in this thread about why AC should worry about the "reality" of social media and Twitter - but that applies equally to all of us.
grumbler is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 10:45 am
  #167  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
The funny thing for me is how a lot of people who do leave have a habit of hanging around this forum like crack addicts looking for their dealer.

Listen, it's business. I used to be loyal to Bell - for decades - but someone came along with better telecom offers. I switched. No hard feelings. It's not like they owed me anything for my loyalty. I got my service, I paid my bill. Service... payment. Airline gets me from point A to point B, sometimes someone other than myself is paying the fare, too. Service... payment.

I have never had anything bad to say about people who move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected. I also make more use than ever of fares that don't give me any points or benefits - because I pay for most of my own tickets and consider my after-tax cash retained to be the ultimate reward.

Brand loyalty, like life-time jobs, is a thing of the past. Just do what is in your own best interest without behaving like the proverbial outraged virgin. If AC or any other carrier cheapens the benefits, or raises fares, just make an objective choice. It gets tiring listening to some complaints from people who felt they were chained to AP like some kind of consumer Stockholm Syndrome and are only now being liberated. Just move on and don't have any regrets.
Sebring is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 10:51 am
  #168  
Suspended
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Originally Posted by Sebring
The funny thing for me is how a lot of people who do leave have a habit of hanging around this forum like crack addicts looking for their dealer.

Listen, it's business. I used to be loyal to Bell - for decades - but someone came along with better telecom offers. I switched. No hard feelings. It's not like they owed me anything for my loyalty. I got my service, I paid my bill. Service... payment. Airline gets me from point A to point B, sometimes someone other than myself is paying the fare, too. Service... payment.

I have never had anything bad to say about people who move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected. I also make more use than ever of fares that don't give me any points or benefits - because I pay for most of my own tickets and consider my after-tax cash retained to be the ultimate reward.

Brand loyalty, like life-time jobs, is a thing of the past. Just do what is in your own best interest without behaving like the proverbial outraged virgin. If AC or any other carrier cheapens the benefits, or raises fares, just make an objective choice. It gets tiring listening to some complaints from people who felt they were chained to AP like some kind of consumer Stockholm Syndrome and are only now being liberated. Just move on and don't have any regrets.
Those of us in secondary cities out east are indeed chained to AC.

If I want to switch to CX I have to figure out a way to get to Toronto first. I will have to figure a way do it but for YOW, YEG, etc it takes resolve and possibly lots of inconvenience to leave AC completely.

And Bell never promised to reward your loyalty, feed you a bunch of marketing baloney and then told you that your loyalty is no longer welcome because you are making too many local calls in their lines. Although apparently they still charge a touch tone fee (wasn't that one of Canada's most annoying charges?).
FlyerTalker683455 is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 10:52 am
  #169  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
The extreme upset about one word -- a word used accurately, honestly, and fairly -- is way over the top. This is the kind of piling-on response that serves no purpose other than to drive the company reps away. We should worry about the changes that are coming, not the way one word was used, and we certainly shouldn't try to stretch it to mean something else entirely. He was making a valid point, one that we should all be able to understand.

Honestly, this thread cheapens the discussion about the 2015 changes. (And yes, I expect that comment to be taken out of context as well.)
DaveObee is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 10:55 am
  #170  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,742
Originally Posted by Sebring
Brand loyalty, like life-time jobs, is a thing of the past.
Surely many businesses would disagree with the statement about brand loyalty? Usually those successful ones too.
Stranger is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:04 am
  #171  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,742
Originally Posted by DaveObee
The extreme upset about one word -- a word used accurately, honestly, and fairly -- is way over the top.
Unfortunately, that is not correct. It was not one word but a number of unfortunate statements. A huge mistake on AC's part. True of course that being upset does no one any good.

But that the words indeed may well have been accurate and honest is the real issue that is worth thinking about.

(For the record, I am not emotional about the thing. Rather, doing my best to analyze what I am seeing.)
Stranger is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:16 am
  #172  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC E75K, spouse E75K (MM), National Emerald, various hotel programs
Posts: 367
Originally Posted by Sean Peever
This is a great post Ben! And thank you for taking your time on a Sunday to do so and stand up for your employees!
Agree 100% While I digest the changes and decide on what's best for myself and my SE100 spouse, I value the contribution to the discussions from the AC reps.
YYC traveler is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:24 am
  #173  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
Originally Posted by Sebring
The funny thing for me is how a lot of people who do leave have a habit of hanging around this forum like crack addicts looking for their dealer.

Listen, it's business. I used to be loyal to Bell - for decades - but someone came along with better telecom offers. I switched. No hard feelings. It's not like they owed me anything for my loyalty. I got my service, I paid my bill. Service... payment. Airline gets me from point A to point B, sometimes someone other than myself is paying the fare, too. Service... payment.

I have never had anything bad to say about people who move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected. I also make more use than ever of fares that don't give me any points or benefits - because I pay for most of my own tickets and consider my after-tax cash retained to be the ultimate reward.

Brand loyalty, like life-time jobs, is a thing of the past. Just do what is in your own best interest without behaving like the proverbial outraged virgin. If AC or any other carrier cheapens the benefits, or raises fares, just make an objective choice. It gets tiring listening to some complaints from people who felt they were chained to AP like some kind of consumer Stockholm Syndrome and are only now being liberated. Just move on and don't have any regrets.
So why does AC still call this group its "loyalty team"?
Shareholder is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:24 am
  #174  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,022
What I find most upsetting is lack of information from AC on their long term strategy. They have told us they want to make more money. But what they have not told us is what percentage of the additional revenue they expect from the loyalty program long term and a time table on how they plan to reach that goal. Every term, they come up with a cut which they say will improve their objectives. Without a word on how well the announced cut (e.g. copay) has met the objectives, they come up with one cut after another using the same rationale. It just seems like descent into a bottomless pit. What is the likelihood that the new plans will meet the ever moving target? Do they go to a budget meeting, check the books, then ask Revenue Management to raise $X from the Loyalty Program? RM hurries off to levy a fee such as the ill conceived co-pay that is neither fare nor distance sensitive. If there is a long term plan that impact us, AC should tell us. We may not agree but at least we have a sort of blue print for our own planning.
Lllahim is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:40 am
  #175  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by Sebring
The funny thing for me is how a lot of people who do leave have a habit of hanging around this forum like crack addicts looking for their dealer.
It is strange.
upgradesecret is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:57 am
  #176  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: AC SE MM, too many others
Posts: 1,407
Originally Posted by upgradesecret
It is strange.
Perhaps because many don't actually end up leaving once they get their real taste of sustained flying with UA/DL/Air Mongolia/whatever.
grumbler is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 12:20 pm
  #177  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
for the record, i honestly don't care if AC has a presence or not here officially or unofficially. i find that many BA employees are very happy to unofficially assist with many questions over on the BAEC forum. same on this board as i have seen. either way, i've said it before, AC has to understand that memories are usually long like mine and these changes that impact the most loyal will not go without consequences to AC's bottom line....

i certainly go out of my way to fly on extra connections, though the US or extend my trip on my own dime to see a new place (or even just take an extra night to adjust to time) all just to save my company $$$ .... and to avoid AC.

even when i know i will have to fly AC, i will search high and low for a 5, 10 or 15% off coupon from this board or other boards just to make sure they will get less of my companies money when they are the cheapest option.

so either way, when AC is more expensive, they get no money and even when they are the cheapest, i'll figure out a way for them to get less money.
mkjr is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 2:20 pm
  #178  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
Wink Still No Singapore Online

Originally Posted by Ben Smith
We have listened to many of the various suggestions from this board and over the past few months when appropriate have instituted several ideas that came directly from FT members.
--- But not the very simple minor fix of adding Singapore to the list of countries to enable booking and payment for tickets online !


First, on the substantive topic, the absence of Singapore cannot be a risk management issue because:

(i) cardholder authentication for credit card payments online is actually handled by the card networks / card issuers / payment gateways -- not AC.

(ii) Singapore (with a disproportionately high number of elite credit card users) is surely a better general country-risk than some of the dodgy places that are on the approved list

Moreover, the fact that AC does not fly to Singapore is irrelevant.

I am not aware of any other major airline selling tickets online for a domestic or international flight from A to B that prevents online purchase by customers with address in country C or credit card issued in Country C simply because the airline does not have other flights to/from country C.


Second, on the administrative topic, I have made multiple requests over the course of at least 5 years (via telephone as well as here on FlyerTalk) for your IT department to simply add Singapore to the drop-down box ... but this simple adjustment has still not been done.

For comparison, I informed Qantas of a spelling error for a Chinese city on a similar website drop-down list, and within a few days that simple line item was corrected.

How hard is it for AC to add Singapore to the website country list?


Frankly, we are currently looking at purchasing tickets for two pax plus infant in business or first class from Asia to Canada for travel in JAN-MAR. It is so inconvenient to make this purchase with AC -- as it is still not possible to do so online -- that we naturally will make this and other transpacific bookings on CX.

So AC's failure to make the minor investment of perhaps a few minutes by IT staff has a clear cost on the order of at least $10K in forgone revenue from just one ticket by one customer with address in Singapore or credit card issued in Singapore.

Whether or not AC flies into Singapore, imagine how much revenue is being foolishly lost by not enabling Singapore-based business or leisure travellers to conveniently book online for transpacific flights and onward connections in Canada.
polarpacific is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 3:35 pm
  #179  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
Originally Posted by Lllahim
What I find most upsetting is lack of information from AC on their long term strategy. They have told us they want to make more money. But what they have not told us is what percentage of the additional revenue they expect from the loyalty program long term and a time table on how they plan to reach that goal. Every term, they come up with a cut which they say will improve their objectives. Without a word on how well the announced cut (e.g. copay) has met the objectives, they come up with one cut after another using the same rationale. It just seems like descent into a bottomless pit. What is the likelihood that the new plans will meet the ever moving target? Do they go to a budget meeting, check the books, then ask Revenue Management to raise $X from the Loyalty Program? RM hurries off to levy a fee such as the ill conceived co-pay that is neither fare nor distance sensitive. If there is a long term plan that impact us, AC should tell us. We may not agree but at least we have a sort of blue print for our own planning.
I don't think many companies - regardless of the industry - would reveal their long-term revenue strategy to you.
Sebring is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2014, 3:41 pm
  #180  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Originally Posted by Sebring
The funny thing for me is how a lot of people who do leave have a habit of hanging around this forum like crack addicts looking for their dealer.
Around this forum? Or on this issue?

I'm not a fan of AC. Sadly, living in this country, whether I like it or not, I end up flying AC at some point regardless. Various things it does do (carry on bag changes, for example - over the years, AC has done a spectacular job of making me avoid checked in baggage) have an impact on me. I'm not going to suffer it quietly just because I switched my personal longhaul flying to TK.

To the extent that I can, I've voted with my wallet. Of the 60k odd miles I've flown on *A carriers over the past 12 months, 32k have been with TK, 18k with UA and around 8.5k with AC. Out of those 8.5k miles, I've paid for only one round trip shorthaul this year (using Avion). The rest have been paid for by my employer. As a general principle, I don't feel entitled to choosing my airline when flying for work; if my employer chooses WS or PD or UA or AC, so be it. If benefits accrue, great. If not, meh.

Originally Posted by Sebring
I have never had anything bad to say about people who move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected.
You've had plenty to say about how much choice people have to "move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected." Suffice it to say, you've never come across as being awfully enamored by the idea of people actually choosing where they want to spend their money, especially if it hurts AC.

That aside, this meltdown has been ... fascinating. I have a quick-fix solution in mind - throw the skies open - even cabotage. AC won't like it, but it will let some of the folk here "move their business to where they feel they will be better/best treated/respected." Might even force AC to fight to retain their 'loyalty'.
yulred is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.