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Old Apr 21, 2014, 9:55 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by tcook052
http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...engers-flights

Lukacs said Lachance was scheduled to fly from Halifax to Whitehorse, with connecting stops in Toronto and Vancouver. He said Lachance boarded flight 603 from Halifax to Toronto with his electronic boarding pass and then flight 153 from Toronto to Vancouver without issue.
[/I]
Story as reported does not sound right.

Surely when you check in, they normally either scan your BP or enter your sequential number into the system and the gate agent will notice thst you were offloaded.

So I suspect something else occurred here. Most likely, the pax got offloaded not at YHZ but at YVR?

In any event, the (politically) failed mathematician knows his business and I wish him good luck.
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 8:27 pm
  #77  
 
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Air Canada passenger wins $1,050 after seat-bumping spat

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...spat-1.2619936

A Nova Scotia man has won a $1,050 judgment against Air Canada after he was bumped off a flight and sued the country's largest passenger airline after it refused to compensate him.
Lachance, of Waverley, was heading from Halifax to Whitehorse to teach computer classes to corporate clients. He had booked his flights a couple of weeks in advance and Air Canada routed him through Toronto and Vancouver.

In Vancouver — the last leg of his trip — ​Lachance boarded the plane to Whitehorse with a valid boarding pass. But before the plane took off, he was told to get off the flight because the airline had sold the same seat to another passenger.
I wonder why Air Canada felt this guy didn't deserve any compensation?
Glad to see this guy won his fight.
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 9:54 pm
  #78  
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Originally Posted by pilotboy1985YYC


I wonder why Air Canada felt this guy didn't deserve any compensation?
Glad to see this guy won his fight.
At least, the courts have more sense than the CTA.

As to why AC (and presumably the CTA) would not see this case as denied boarding, I seem to remember a couple of potential explanations came up earlier.

In the line of AC having included stuff in the tariffs allowing them to offload people whom they think won't make it in time for the next flight when the earlier flight is delayed.

Which AC probably put in place when trying to improve on time performance, which we all recall had dropped to abysmal statistics.

But clearly once the airlines took you in charge, you are under their control and it would be wrong to lame the passenger for being late because of their own delay...
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 11:05 pm
  #79  
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If he was actually on the plane (i.e. there on time), and they had sold his seat to someone else, I don't know how they could claim it was anything other than IDB
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 6:51 am
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotboy1985YYC
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...spat-1.2619936





I wonder why Air Canada felt this guy didn't deserve any compensation?
Glad to see this guy won his fight.

Full reasons here.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:21 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by NordsFan
Full reasons here.
Interesting read. I wonder if, given that part of the decision rested on AC's CoC wording, AC might modify the CoC (i.e. remove "previously confirmed") so that such a situation can no longer be called an IDB
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:29 am
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by NordsFan
Full reasons here.
Thanks for the link.

"On occasion the Passenger Rebooking System receives information that suggests that one leg of an itinerary may not be able to meet its Minimum Connection Time for the destination airport. When that happens the PNS system automatically offloads the passenger from the next scheduled flight in the booked itinerary and re-books him or her on the following flight for that leg of the journey."

" All of this happened automatically. All of this happened while Mr Lachance was in the air, travelling on AC 603 from Halifax to Toronto. All of it happened before he arrived in Toronto. And none of it happened to his knowledge."
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:34 am
  #83  
 
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UPDATE: the court found in favour of the passenger -- Air Canada ignored its tariff

In a decision issued yesterday, the court fully vindicated the passenger:

88 For the above reasons and on the above facts, I was satisfied that
  1. what happened in Vancouver was a “denied boarding” within the meaning of Rule245AC;
  2. it was not a “mis-connection” within the meaning of Rule 240AC because Air Canada was in fact able to deliver Mr Lachance to Toronto “in time to connect with” AC 153, and then again in time to connect with AC 289; and
  3. Air Canada was not entitled on the facts to cancel Mr Lachance’s confirmed reservation on AC 289 pursuant to Rule 135 because
    1. he had in fact checked in, and
    2. he had in fact presented himself at the Vancouver gate at least 20 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time.
The conclusion that this was a case of "denied boarding" was reached because the court held that:

85 Air Canada’s “floodgate” argument is simply an attempt to bolster what it says is the correct interpretation of Rule 245AC. Air Canada’s interpretation would result in it being able to cause a “previously confirmed space” to cease to be “previously confirmed” simply by unilaterally offloading the passenger and cancelling his or her confirmation “in order to operate at full capacity” (to use the words of its customer service agent). As I have already noted, that interpretation ignores the word “previously.” A “confirmed space” can cease to be “confirmed” once it is changed. But a “previously confirmed” space does not cease to have been “previously confirmed” once it is changed. The other point of course is that if Air Canada’s interpretation were accepted then it is difficult to see when Air Canada would ever have to pay compensatory damages for denying boarding to a passenger whose seat had been “previously confirmed.”

86 Air Canada’s argument also ignores what I take to be the underlying rationale for Rule 245AC. The Rule is based on the recognition that both parties to the contract of carriage–Air Canada and the passenger–have an interest in the commitments that have been made by each to the other once a ticket is confirmed. The passenger commits to showing up on time. Air Canada commits not to delay a passenger in his or her trip (subject of course to factors beyond its control). Rule 245AC recognizes that if Air Canada decides to over book “in order to operate at full capacity” then it may do so. But in that event it must also compensate a “previously confirmed” passenger for any resulting delay caused by that over booking. That quid pro quo strikes me as only fair and reasonable. A passenger’s time has value. He or she has organized that time around the previous commitment made by Air Canada with respect to departure times. If Air Canada decides to change that commitment solely for reasons of maximizing its own profits, why should it not compensate the passenger for the impact of that decision on the passenger’s time?


The court then when on to find that Air Canada ignored its own tariff:

90 Mr Lachance also seeks general damages for Air Canada’s breach of Rule 245AC in the amount of $100.00, the limit of such damages that can be awarded in this court. In my opinion such an award is appropriate. Air Canada failed to comply with an obligation that its customer service agent initially acknowledged existed, and instead acted as if some other form of compensation was appropriate for what had happened. It ignored, in other words, its own Tariff.
Finally, the court concluded that Air Canada's questioning which flight the passenger took added insult to injury:

91 To add insult to injury it took the position that Mr Lachance was “mistaken” as to what flight he was on when he left Toronto for Vancouver. I think too I can take judicial notice of the fact that Air Canada presents itself to the public as a professional carrier which can be relied upon to provide positive travel experiences to its customers; to treat them with respect; and to honour their booked and confirmed itineraries to the extent possible. Air Canada recognized when it entered into its contract of carriage with Mr Lachance that a long and unexpected delay spent in an airport is neither a pleasant nor a happy experience, and that such a delay would cause some distress to him. (Indeed, this understanding is reflected in the fact that the compensatory damages payable under Rule 245AC increase with the length of the delay.) This then is an appropriate case for damages: see, for e.g., Fidler v. Sun Life Assurance Co. of Canada 2006 SCC 30 (CanLII), 2006 SCC 30. All of this supports an award of $100.00 for general damages for Air Canada’s breach of its Tariff.
The complete decision is available online:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nssm/doc...014nssm14.html
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:43 am
  #84  
 
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fascinating Read

Thanks for the link
I encourage everyone to read this. Well done to him for persuing the issue. It would be nice to think that this could be used as a precedent for others, but as noted maybe AC will just change the T&C instead.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:45 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by tomvancouver
Thanks for the link
I encourage everyone to read this. Well done to him for persuing the issue. It would be nice to think that this could be used as a precedent for others, but as noted maybe AC will just change the T&C instead.
You can better believe that this individual is now flagged in AC systems.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 7:48 am
  #86  
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Originally Posted by SEMM
You can better believe that this individual is now flagged in AC systems.
Perhaps instead of bumping him next time, they'll offer him a seat in the wheel well
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by SEMM
You can better believe that this individual is now flagged in AC systems.
Why ? For what purpose ?
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 8:10 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by NordsFan
Why ? For what purpose ?
I don't think the Exec's at Dorval are probably overly happy that a judgement was rendered against them...given how AC sometimes is always on their high horses about things.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 8:15 am
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by SEMM
I don't think the Exec's at Dorval are probably overly happy that a judgement was rendered against them...given how AC sometimes is always on their high horses about things.
AC has cases in courts throughout the land almost every other week. They win some, they lose some. When they lose, they sometimes appeal when that is possible. When that is not an option, they pay.

So, you're saying the company devotes time and effort on revenge ?
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 8:36 am
  #90  
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Originally Posted by NordsFan
Full reasons here.
First, thanks for the link.
Two interesting issues:

1. AC openly admits that they offload people based upon the MCT, not simply the latest time to be at the gate. Up to now we only had anecdotal evidence to that effect, but now they recognized it openly Which as far as I know has no basis in the tariffs. So they recognize that they violate their own tariffs. Indeed the MCT is a ticketing thing, nowhere in the tariffs except if these changed since last time I looked.

We may see more cases about this sort of situations. One issue that will need to be checked in court (which the CTA already decided in AC's favor) is whether they can offload even based upon the gate time, in case where tyhe passenger is late due to AC's fault, i.e. a previous delay *after the passenger was taken in charge by AC.* Someone will need to take AC to small claims court on that one.

2. I have a hard time with the notion that the gate might not be able to see that a passenger was offloaded. It sounds like there is something fishy going on here.

Oh, the culture of arrogance....
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