bimmerdriver

I came home to YVR yesterday from SIN, via HKG, on UA 896 and AC 8. On AC 8, I was in the J cabin, aka, International Business Class, seat 3C. It was my first flight, and I wish my last, on the 777HD. I can think of virtually no redeeming features of this aircraft, at least not for the passengers.

After I boarded, I took a quick walk aft to take a look at the P/E and E cabins. There was an FA standing near the entrance of the E cabin and she asked me if I was taking a look. I replied yes, and told her I'm SE and had heard a lot of negative comments about the 777HD, and wanted to see for myself how dense the seating is. I asked her what she thought of the new aircraft. She didn't hold back. She said none of the FAs had anything good to say about it, specifically WRT the density, width and pitch, reduction in lavatories and reduction in galleys. She said the passengers don't like the cramped seating, congestion in aisles, longer waits for lavatories and the FAs dislike the increased workload due to the reduction in galleys. People were boarding and I didn't want to take more of her time so I went back forward. A while later, when the inflight service started, she came forward and stopped by to say hello, asking me what I thought so far. I told her "not much". She said to think of it as a new girlfriend, except one that you don't like. We laughed but it occurred to me, why stick with a new girlfriend if I didn't like her?

Later during the flight, I talked to the FA in the J cabin. By this time, I had been in the seat for a while and tried the IFE, not impressed with either in the slightest. I asked him what he thought of the new aircraft. He said that FAs absolutely hate it and have protested, but been ignored. He said that the marketing people are determined to make it work. He said the galleys can handle at most 270(?) or so meals, so the passengers have to be served in two shifts. He also said that P/E is served from the forward galley, which messes up the service up front, which I will say, definitely is the case. The service was very poor, rushed and inattentive relative to the flight over from YVR. Without question, it was the worst service I've ever experienced in the J cabin on AC. For example, instead of multiple refills of the nuts (which I really enjoy), there was one. At no time during the flight was I offered water to drink. Also, I wasn't even offered anything to drink with my meal until I waved at an FA half-way through the main course for a glass of wine. The FA I was talking to was the one whom I had to ask for a drink and he apologized profusely for the oversight.

By this time, another passenger (SE / MM) had joined the conversation in the very crowded and narrow passage behind the forward curtain. He was also very disappointed. The FA pointed out a guy in a black suite with a red tie, a route planner(?) and said that was the person we should be talking to. He called over Mr. RP who asked if he could help. I unloaded my negative comments on him about the density, the cramped aisles, the seats and the IFE, basically that the new aircraft has no redeeming features whatsoever. I told him for me, this aircraft is a first. I've always looked forward to each new generation of aircraft because they were always improvements, but this one is a departure, being worse in virtually every way. He had nothing to say, except if I don't like the seats, to avoid Swiss Air, because that's where they came from. (Not sure if he was implying the aircraft were originally ordered by Swiss Air.) He was not unexpectedly defensive and but he also seemed surprised at the level of vitriol expressed by passengers towards the 777HD. (I will be honest here, I really unloaded on him.)

My specific comments about the aircraft are almost uniformly negative. Aside from it being new, which applies to any new aircraft, the only positive thing I can say is that I like the colour scheme. Also P/E is less dense than E, but by definition, it's supposed to be. Everything else is negative. In the E cabin, the aisles are narrow, the seats are narrow and the pitch is short. There are fewer lavatories and due to the reduction in galleys, the meals have to be served two shifts. I'm dreading having to fly in economy on this aircraft, and I will probably go out of my way to avoid it, including flying only to narita on the way to Singapore, and taking UA the rest of the way. At least they have more seating room and the upgrade to economy plus is relatively inexpensive.

The J cabin is a big disappointment and a giant leap backwards. Not only are there fewer seats, but the seats are much more cramped and much less comfortable. Sitting in 3C, I was sharing space with 3A, which would have been okay if I was travelling with the other passenger, but it's completely not okay otherwise. It's a major inconvenience if the passenger in the window seat needs to get up. They either must climb over the passenger in the aisle seat or the passenger in the aisle seat must raise the seat or get up. In short, it sucks rocks, and I will go out of my way to avoid these seats in the future, if possible. I think the entire approach to the J cabin is wrong. There should not be some good seats (the middle seats and the single seats) and some bad seats, the pairs along the windows. The pod approach on the regular 777 and the 787 is much better.

Speaking to the seats themselves, I don't like them at all. There is no way to separately adjust the recline or the headrest. There is a lumbar area adjustment, but it didn't improve the comfort. The headrest is loose. You can pull it forward, but it doesn't hold position. WT*?!? The leg rest is very short and not supportive at all. There is nowhere to store shoes, except to pile them up in the 1x1 ft floor space between the two seats. The table is small cannot be adjusted forward and back. It's finicky to stow. The seats are also narrower and shorter than the pods. I just fit, but taller or wider people will not be comfortable. I can't help but wonder why AC selected these seats. Surely there must have been some better alternatives.

Speaking to the IFE, the only redeeming feature is that the screen is larger and the system has a modern looking user interface. Other than that, I didn't like it at all. There is no way to tilt the screen so you can look directly at it when the seat is lowered, so the image contrast goes down and the glare goes up. The human factors of the gui are poor and the system responds slowly and awkwardly. For example, when you push on an icon (e.g., pause), you can see that the system detected the press because the icon changes colour, however, unless you hold the icon down long enough, the press is ignored and the menu disappears without doing anything. Sometimes it takes several such attempts to get the system to actually respond. This is particularly annoying if you want to rewind to an earlier spot in a film. The entire gui responds like this. Also, the selection of movies is underwhelming, not much better than the old system. In fact, the system seems to simply be a newer version of the old system, which is one of the most dated IFE systems on any airline I fly.

That's my impression of the 777HD. I am VERY VERY DISAPPOINTED. If this is the direction AC is going, I'm going to think hard what to about the future. Why stay with a girlfriend if you don't like her?

colinary

Thanks for the concise review. I'm flying AC156 on the HD in early january in economy on a reward ticket, lots to look forward too....

ffsim

Very detailed post. I'm glad you shared your comments with Mr. RP and hopefully AC will start listening to its employees at some point.

But I'm really surprised by all the hate towards these J seats. If the reports are accurate and they're exactly the same as LX's C class seats, they're awesome. I guess it's all a matter of personal taste after all. You don't have to stay with a girlfriend you don't like; that's how she becomes someone else's girlfriend.

yvr76

The good news is that this is not the direction AC is going with J, as witnessed by the new Dreamliner pods. PE is also a welcome addition for me, even if it takes away from J.

The bad news is that HD configs in Y look to be the new normal. The 787 Y cabin is 17.3" x 31" slimline, which is only a marginal improvement over the 77HD. The 787 could also use an extra bathroom Y, although it's not nearly as unbalanced as the 77HD.

Surprised to hear about the IFE. I heard it was an improvement over existing. Not sure is the 787 IFE is the same as the 77HD or completely revamped.

Apparently by the time AC 'bought' these aircraft, the seat layout/selection was already a done deal so they had very little input. I've never understood why they've put this on the YVR HKG route, where they have to compete with CX, which has a great hard product.

bimmerdriver

I will be submitting a complaint to AC also. AC doesn't have a history of listening to its employees, so I don't have high hopes of anything coming from that. In fact, both of the FAs said they have protested against the 777HD from the beginning and were ignored. They begged me to send emails to management. AC is riding high on being selected as the top airline 4 years in a row by skytrax and I'm sure they will beat that to death, despite the giant step backward they have taken with the 777HD.

One other thing I didn't mention about the seats is the touch control. Sometimes it doesn't respond at all to presses. Other times, if your arm brushes on the touch pad, the seat will move. The touchpad is right where you put your arm, depending on the position of the seat. The pods are getting long in the tooth, especially the IFE, but I would take a pod over the new seats any time.

bimmerdriver

The pods on the 787 look a lot better than the 777 J cabin. I think the IFE could be improved with a software update, so maybe it will get better.

TemboOne

why even take the chance of trouble?

We've all heard the nightmare stories of the 77HD and your very comprehensive review confirms everything negative we've heard, and more; thank you!

I'd really like to see a review of the 77HD in Y - on a long haul like HKG.

Unlike J and even PE, for many in Y the super-long-haul trips are either once in a lifetime or once every few years. Many in 77HD Y will have no idea that things could be much better, and that may well be what AC is banking on.

Thanks again for the excellent report.

AC's 77HD is like a new g/f with the plague; avoid at all cost!!!

margarita girl

Here is the response you will get:

In my case I had booked on a 763 and got the new HD aircraft instead.

shore9

At least if they keep it to specific routes it can be avoided. It's when they deploy it as an equipment swap that doesn't seem to fair to me and we know from previous experience with the Amigo's and Pineapples that AC will do nothing to sooth that pain.

BrotherBranwell

Thanks for the detailed post. Will be interesting to see if AC management have the common sense to admit they made a mistake with the 77HDs and reconfigure them. I would bet not.

bimmerdriver

I seriously doubt it. That would be capitulation and admission of guilt, neither of which stand a snowball's chance in h*ll. The best we can hope for is that they won't order any more. If they do, it will be symbolic of a giant upraised middle finger directed at the passengers. My money is on that.

bimmerdriver

I can see where this analogy is going. We better stop embellishing it before the mods do it for us.

100,000miler

I hear you but I am convinced AC is going HD on all flights. Rouge was only the beginning. Why else is is stock value at an all time high. Profits, profits, profits. certainly not for customer satisfaction.

The only way to change this will be to avoid AC altogether. If customers start walking away will only be the way the airline will listen to its mistakes.

I will certainly be avoiding any HD flights if I can. My lengthy association with AC may well be in jeopardy.

The Lev

Given that they've been touting them to the financial markets, it would be tough to say "oops".

Hopefully those who say specific product for specific limited markets are right.

elitetraveler

Same/similar J seat as LX, OS and DL 767s. Some seats are better than others - more foot space, etc.

The seats definitely have more/better storage space than the pods, but feel (to me) narrower.

The new 787 J seats look very nice.