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Old Mar 12, 13, 12:11 am   #1
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: YYZ
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how are Scamcharges calculated?

Just curious if anyone know how Scamcharges are calculated by AP?

For example, if I book a flight that has one long segment in NH or TG, but everything else in that trip is with UA, I know I will get hit with Scamcharges due to the segment with NH or TG.

For example:
YYZ-EWR UA
EWR-FRA UA
FRA-NRT NH
NRT-HKG UA

Now if I already have to pay Scamcharges for NH or TG, would the amount of Scamcharge go up a lot - if I toss in a few AC segments to the mix (removing UA component)?

For example:
YYZ-FRA AC
FRA-NRT NH
NRT-HKG NH

Are Scamcharges calculated per leg?
Or do we just get hit with something in the range of C$500 regardless of how many segments on scamcharge airlines for a YYZ-Asia trip, once there is at least one scamchargable segment on NH or TG, etc?

Last edited by iamaho; Mar 12, 13 at 1:04 am..
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Old Mar 12, 13, 12:35 am   #2
 
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But actually, it closely relates to the published YQ for each flight. Each leg operated by a carrier which scamcharges are calculated for are billed. You can estimate each leg on ITA Matrix.
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Old Mar 12, 13, 6:52 am   #3
 
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It's calculated per leg using the operating carrier's published YQ.
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Old Mar 12, 13, 9:17 am   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krayZpaving View Post
It's calculated per leg using the operating carrier's published YQ.
Except for AC domestic and transborder flights, when it is an invented number not used in any real fare calculation.
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Old Mar 12, 13, 9:35 am   #5
 
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It's the highest amount they think they can get away with, and still sell seats. In other words, the same algorithm they use to set the base fare.
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Old Mar 12, 13, 3:18 pm   #6
 
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Old Mar 12, 13, 4:32 pm   #7
 
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I guess, it depends on your definition of 'scamcharges'.

If you are meaning 'YQ' - scamcharge sensu stricto and seemingly arbitrary per other posts.

But if you are meaning more like the all up extra cash charge for reward tickets, then that can and usually does include some unpleasant, but quite real and set costs such as airport-imposed passenger fees (securtity, landing, airport improvement ...).

Here are some I saw posted in another thread:

$54.20 Swiss Passenger Security and Noise Charge
$39.50 France Domestic & International Airport Tax
$21.30 Spain Departure Charge
$5.80 Spanish Security Tax
$48.40 France International Passenger Service Charge
$23.40 Thailand Domestic Passenger Service
$477.80 Fuel Surcharge


... and Canada has its own verion of many of these of course
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Old Mar 12, 13, 5:19 pm   #8
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It's whatever Air Canada wants to steal from you as the ticketing carrier.

Classic example is the YYZ-NRT-AKL routing on NZ/ AC.
AC should only collect for first leg, but they collect based on YYZ-AKL, which is much more
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Old Mar 12, 13, 8:21 pm   #9
 
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Yeah I mean YQ.

Because looking at my parents ticket which involved multiple segments on scamchargable airlines, for example:
YYZ ORD AC
ORD ICN OZ
ICN HKG OZ
HKG BKK TG
BKK NRT NH
NRT YYZ AC
...YQ was $512

Then booked a flight for the partner:
BCN ZRH LX
ZRH CDG LX
CDG BKK TG
BKK CDG TG
CDG ZRH LX
ZRH BCN LX
... YQ was around the same. At $477!

So it just seem totally arbitrary!
Any ticket without a scamchargable airline involved. Then it's only the taxes involved.
But toss in one segment that involves those airlines. Then it seems to be $500 regardless? Even if it is just one segment or 6 segments?!?

-----

Just as an experiment... I went to AP website and put in the following:
YYZ CDG via AC
CDG YYZ via LH AC
... YQ of $862 ($431 per segment)

then I tried:
YYZ FRA via AC
FRA BKK via TG
BKK NRT via NH
NRT ORD via NH
ORD YYZ via AC
... YQ of $670 (total)

Makes absolutely NO SENSE!

Last edited by iamaho; Mar 13, 13 at 1:52 am.. Reason: proper YQ amount added / experiment added
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Old Mar 12, 13, 10:40 pm   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamaho View Post
Just curious if anyone know how Scamcharges are calculated by AP?
Take the total per-seat fuel cost, and add a little bit:

Published Distance YYZ-LHR-YYZ: 7112 miles
Published Fuel Surcharge: $412.00
Actual Fuel Cost to AC: $398.27 (method 1)
Actual Fuel Cost to AC: $376.94 (method 2)


How to reach that amazing number, showing how it's not a fuel surcharge from their own year end finacials for 2012:
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/in...q4_release.pdf

Method 1:
Fuel/Available Seat Mile = CASM - Adj CASM = 17.4 - 11.8 = 5.6 cents/seat-mile. However the Adj CASM also includes a few other expenses, so...

Method 2:
Available seat miles (millions) (ASM) 67,269
Fuel Litres (millions) 3,976
Fuel Cost/Litre (cents) 89.7
so it cost $3,566.4m in fuel last year to fly 67,269m seat-miles, or...
3,976m * 0.897 / 67,269m = 5.3 cents/seat-mile

How this doesn't qualify for fraud is actually somewhat beyond me. Oh, and before the AC lovers start talking about load-factor, let's remember these numbers don't take into account that the J cabin pays a double fuel-surcharge.
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Old Mar 13, 13, 7:57 am   #11
 
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Looking at flight YYZ-CDG return: Feb 1-12, 2014
-if book into Y then YQ is $456pp
-if book into J then YQ is $826pp!

Most of the rest of the taxes/fees are the same regardless of which class booked into (exception is French Air Passenger Solidarity Tax IZ Y is $5.60 and J is $55.60) - so total for Y is $$582pp and J is $996pp plus of course the points needed! Numbers come from ita Matrix search
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Old Mar 13, 13, 11:42 pm   #12
 
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The Points Guy did a good write up on the irrational nature of AP YQ...

http://thepointsguy.com/2013/03/over...axes-and-fees/
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Old Mar 14, 13, 1:01 am   #13
 
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Lucky just wrote an interesting blog about miscalculations in YQ charges on American.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemil...es-negotiable/
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Old Mar 14, 13, 8:04 am   #14
 
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Division by Zero is involved....
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Old Mar 14, 13, 10:56 am   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZBB View Post
Method 1:
Fuel/Available Seat Mile = CASM - Adj CASM = 17.4 - 11.8 = 5.6 cents/seat-mile. However the Adj CASM also includes a few other expenses, so...

Method 2:
Available seat miles (millions) (ASM) 67,269
Fuel Litres (millions) 3,976
Fuel Cost/Litre (cents) 89.7
so it cost $3,566.4m in fuel last year to fly 67,269m seat-miles, or...
3,976m * 0.897 / 67,269m = 5.3 cents/seat-mile
How close would these numbers match other airlines? Does this mean that a MR at less than 5cpm is an exceptional deal?
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