Explain to me why Altitude & Aeropesos are bad for upgrade, redeeming award travel?
So, I just went to UA and checked their MP program for upgrade, reward redemption, *A upgrade, etc. I just don't see why except for scamcharges, that AP status and AP miles are bad for upgrades and reward travel.
The time to confirm upgrade is shorter for UA 1K (96h) than AC SE (7d), or for Plat (72h) than A75 (5d). UA only allows 1K to access int'l upgrades, while AC has access to any AC-metal upgrades as long as there's R space.
For reward travels, seems like similar mileage requirement for roundtrip/one-way flights. Mini-RTW costs 250K for J and 350K for F in UA MP!!! AP requires half that amount. And from what I gather, both programs have same access to int'l *A inventory.
For *A upgrades, M fare on LX is eligible in AP, while it's not under UA. Very few people buy Y/B fares anyway as Z class is just about the same. This may become important.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like AP despite the scamcharges are still better to claim reward travels and eupgrades on int'l flights. Can someone here convince me otherwise?
Programs: AC E75K HH:G National:E Fairmont:P SPG:G Amex:P
Posts: 1,220
You forgot the other big big gorilla in the room with UA, they have way too many members with some sort of status
Because you can see wait list I got an eye opener on how bad it is this month on a short haul MSY-IAH flight. Biz class was full and there was + 40 wait listed for any opening
1/2 the plane had status, boarding was a joke and getting an upgrade on any popular route in or out of hub city is not something you can ever count on. 100K level is only level worth having on UA, unless you get there not worth it
Programs: UA*G, A3*G, BA Silver, PClub Gold, Choice Gold
Posts: 11,809
You need to read up on types of UA upgrades, I don't think you are understanding between complimentary and instrument supported upgrades.
Also, R space upgrades with instruments/miles can be confirmed at booking or anything R opens, no need to wait and play aerolotto. Complimentary upgrades (the ones with the window) are automatic and do not require any action or requests.
And as to 100k being the only level worth it... Please. Sure if you are flying to/from hubs at busy times, as a lowly gold I have never missed an upgrade to/from YYZ or BUF to ORD,IAD,DEN,IAH.
Also, I ll take having my regional upgrades confirmed weeks in advance on lowest fares over paying double for T+ and playing aerolotto.
Programs: AC Elite35K, AAdvantage, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,689
The main problem amongst AC Top Tier is that it used to be a much more generous program than it is right now.
Although upgrades are available to lower tiers than UA (50k, 75k), it seems that most R space goes to zero at the T - 7 day mark, making the majority of upgrades on the cheaper fares at the gate based on priority. There are less people waiting for upgrades than on UA, I find.
The YQ fuel surcharge is pretty terrible. They have changed the way a "free ticket" is awarded when the value of the fuel surcharge often matches the paid portion of a revenue ticket. It would not be uncommon for YQ to be between $500-$900 per ticket. Outright ghastly if you ask me. The overall fees, including YQ, also used to be minimal as few as 2 years ago.
You need to read up on types of UA upgrades, I don't think you are understanding between complimentary and instrument supported upgrades.
Also, R space upgrades with instruments/miles can be confirmed at booking or anything R opens, no need to wait and play aerolotto. Complimentary upgrades (the ones with the window) are automatic and do not require any action or requests.
And as to 100k being the only level worth it... Please. Sure if you are flying to/from hubs at busy times, as a lowly gold I have never missed an upgrade to/from YYZ or BUF to ORD,IAD,DEN,IAH.
Also, I ll take having my regional upgrades confirmed weeks in advance on lowest fares over paying double for T+ and playing aerolotto.
Yes, regional upgrades would be a good perk to have at UA Plat for longer distance travels. I don't care about US domestic flights (even transcontinental e.g. JFK-LAX) or transborder flights. Sitting in Y is fine for me as long as it's at the front section so I can get off quickly or make that tight connection. I'm looking for int'l TATL TPAC upgrades, which you need 1K to access.
I do agree T+ fares have been ridiculous. However, looks like loophole from US departure is a good option for me, or book it at 3rd party sites like AMEX or Kayak. In fact, found a Kayak V-class fare for LGA-YUL-ZRH for 1/2 of the price advertised on AC.com.
The main problem amongst AC Top Tier is that it used to be a much more generous program than it is right now.
Although upgrades are available to lower tiers than UA (50k, 75k), it seems that most R space goes to zero at the T - 7 day mark, making the majority of upgrades on the cheaper fares at the gate based on priority. There are less people waiting for upgrades than on UA, I find.
The YQ fuel surcharge is pretty terrible. They have changed the way a "free ticket" is awarded when the value of the fuel surcharge often matches the paid portion of a revenue ticket. It would not be uncommon for YQ to be between $500-$900 per ticket. Outright ghastly if you ask me. The overall fees, including YQ, also used to be minimal as few as 2 years ago.
Yeah, YQ fuel surchage has been bad but looks like as long as you don't fly AC, avoid LHR on reward travels you'll be ok. I still feel paying $500 for RT YYZ-NRT-SIN in J is a pretty good deal overall using AP miles.
At 75K and up UA elites earn Regional upgrade credits and at 100K system wide ones. These can generally be confirmed for upgrading at the time of ticketing if R inventory is available, and it usually is months out if one can plan that far in advance. Regionals can be used on any fare within NAmerica, on UA intra-Asia routes and some Intra-Latin America routes. Systemwides require a mid-level coach fare which is often pretty much AC's T+. If you rely solely on unlimited elite upgrades within NAmerica, you'd better be 1K or Global Services and maybe you'll be 50:50 for the year.
Awards are where UA/MP shines given one-ways are actual 50% of the return pricing and no fuel surcharges. Also for Plats and 1Ks/GSs no charge for changes or cancellation and redeposit of miles.
At 75K and up UA elites earn Regional upgrade credits and at 100K system wide ones. These can generally be confirmed for upgrading at the time of ticketing if R inventory is available, and it usually is months out if one can plan that far in advance. Regionals can be used on any fare within NAmerica, on UA intra-Asia routes and some Intra-Latin America routes. Systemwides require a mid-level coach fare which is often pretty much AC's T+. If you rely solely on unlimited elite upgrades within NAmerica, you'd better be 1K or Global Services and maybe you'll be 50:50 for the year.
Awards are where UA/MP shines given one-ways are actual 50% of the return pricing and no fuel surcharges. Also for Plats and 1Ks/GSs no charge for changes or cancellation and redeposit of miles.
Thanks for the clarification; yes what you said above is completely true. Yes, the one-way 50% miles requirement is nice but I think that's rarely redeemed no? And it doesn't offer much advantage for mini-RTW itineraries. Also, if I'm a UA/MP I'd rarely redeem Int'l J UA flights; haven't been impressed by their hard/soft products. So if I redeem for other *A carriers will need to pay scamcharges right? And Yes, would be good not to get charged for cancellations/changes.
It just sounds like unless you're UA 1K there's really no point to switch from AP.
Programs: UA*G, A3*G, BA Silver, PClub Gold, Choice Gold
Posts: 11,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpdiddy
Yeah, YQ fuel surchage has been bad but looks like as long as you don't fly AC, avoid LHR on reward travels you'll be ok. I still feel paying $500 for RT YYZ-NRT-SIN in J is a pretty good deal overall using AP miles.
GT
Considering you'd be paying $100 with MP, its actually a pretty good deal to AC only.
U seem to be under the impression these fees are for AC flight only?????
One thing that you should also remeber is that AC fares are usualy several hundred dollars more, and they have dropped T L K fares down to tango meaning that there is even a wider gap between AC/UA.
I used to MR on AC (because of competitive fares and the upgrade loophole); but when the same fare on different metal starts to cost several hundre more it makes the different between a MR and just flying in circles expensivly.
Adding up all the costs (over a year of flying+redemptions) and it becomes more and more difficult to defend AC.
As a small example; the TK fare from IAD-ATH has been matched by multiple carriers (25$ base fare); AC has also matched to 112.5$ (sure not a HUGE amount more) but it is a K fare; that earns 50% of the same UA fare; and is no longer upgradable;
Considering you'd be paying $100 with MP, its actually a pretty good deal to AC only.
U seem to be under the impression these fees are for AC flight only?????
I know the fees are not strictly for AC flights as all carriers charge some form of YQ and taxes but AC fuel surcharges are much higher. I agree $100 vs $500 is a big difference. Unfortunately, parents reside in YYZ and as they're getting old with limited long distance mobility, I rather shell out some dough for direct TPAC TATL flights then reroute via USA even though they both have NEXUS.
Agree on T vs T+ difference and on non-AC metal flights. I fly AC now only for eupgrade on TATL and TPAC on weekdays to maximize Aerolotto, and transborder flights, to meet the minimum requirement to requalify. Rest of flights are on *A with good value and trying different products.
As my reward redemption mostly focuses on mini-RTW it looks like UA is not as good as AP on the miles required.
Programs: UA*G, A3*G, BA Silver, PClub Gold, Choice Gold
Posts: 11,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpdiddy
I know the fees are not strictly for AC flights as all carriers charge some form of YQ and taxes but AC fuel surcharges are much higher.
As my reward redemption mostly focuses on mini-RTW it looks like UA is not as good as AP on the miles required.
a) its not airline dependent but route dependent, the YQ AC collects for TG/LH/etc flights can be much higher than AC flights.
B) you'd rather pay 125000 AE miles +$1200 for a 3 destination mini-RTW with a very restrictive MPM5 routing than 140k UA miles +$200 with no routing rules?????
B) you'd rather pay 125000 AE miles +$1200 for a 3 destination mini-RTW with a very restrictive MPM5 routing than 140k UA miles +$200 with no routing rules?????
I read on the UA/MP reward chart that a mini-RTW costs 250K in J and 350K in F, is that not true?
I've never paid >$500 for a mini-RTW in J/F. Booked LGA-YUL-ZRH(Stop)-FRA-ICN(stop)-NRT-YYZ on AC J/LX J/OZ F/UA F/AC J for <$400 ai.
Even if 140K UA miles + $200 only with no routing rules, by sheer # of UA/MPers alone wouldn't it be harder to get the reward bookings you want from UA/MP, or are the reward routing options and availabilities status dependent?
Programs: UA*G, A3*G, BA Silver, PClub Gold, Choice Gold
Posts: 11,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpdiddy
I read on the UA/MP reward chart that a mini-RTW costs 250K in J and 350K in F, is that not true?
I've never paid >$500 for a mini-RTW in J/F. Booked LGA-YUL-ZRH(Stop)-FRA-ICN(stop)-NRT-YYZ on AC J/LX J/OZ F/UA F/AC J for <$400 ai.
Even if 140K UA miles + $200 only with no routing rules, by sheer # of UA/MPers alone wouldn't it be harder to get the reward bookings you want from UA/MP, or are the reward routing options and availabilities status dependent?
GT
Ok, again. UA and AC draw from the same inventory, so as an Aeroplan redeemer, you already are competing with all other star redeemers!!!!! The only difference is that UA plat and above get additional J UA inventory
And
You read the chart wrong, it's 125k for a trip to Asia with a stopover and open jaw routed over both oceans.. Add a regional one way at 10-15k to close the open jaw making it a 3 stop itinerary.
This includes all Asia not selected countries like Aeroplan, and the routing rules are so lax, your stopovers can be anywhere unlike the restrictive Aeroplan rules.
Your fees were 'only' $400 because you used a scamchargeable airline in only one direction, if your TATL was on AC or LH you would have paid $1000+
