"Yield management has decided there will be no upgrades on this flight..."

xray · Dec 16, 12, 3:21 pm

That's the first time I've heard this one...

I tried to e-upgrade my flight SFO-YVR for next week online and was met with a message that stated that the Exec cabin was not available on this flight. It's an E90 and there is an Exec cabin...so I called in.

The agent tells me that not only is there no upgrade space, "yield management had decided there will be no upgrading on this flight". I replied that even with R=0, you can still waitlist...she said No, there won't be any upgrading

Oh well...it's a short flight and I'll check again when I OLCI. It looks like the back may be oversold but I have never encountered a situation where they won't take a waitlist...

tracon · Dec 16, 12, 3:51 pm

Did you call back and get a second or third opinion?

xray · Dec 16, 12, 3:55 pm

I might do that and try to get through to AC.com tech support to see if I get a different answer. I'm calling from SFO and I have noticed that the US based call centre seems to be a bit "behind"...

jlisi984 · Dec 16, 12, 4:05 pm

That's really, really weird...

I don't understand the reasoning behind it, if any.

pitz · Dec 16, 12, 4:07 pm

Its likely a route where there are some very well-heeled clients that can show up at relatively random times and pay for the J cabin. Like a bunch of Facebook kids wanting to hit up Whistler for a weekend.

AC basically knows that certain routes have a lot of price-insensitive last minute or premium travellers, and positions their services accordingly. I don't know if agents are ordinarily supposed to discuss any of AC's revenue management/yield management policies with customers, but it sounds like you might have heard a bit of a slip-up.

yyzgigi · Dec 16, 12, 4:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitz

Its likely a route where there are some very well-heeled clients that can show up at relatively random times and pay for the J cabin. Like a bunch of Facebook kids wanting to hit up Whistler for a weekend.

AC basically knows that certain routes have a lot of price-insensitive last minute or premium travellers, and positions their services accordingly. I don't know if agents are ordinarily supposed to discuss any of AC's revenue management/yield management policies with customers, but it sounds like you might have heard a bit of a slip-up.

Whether or not this is true, it should have nothing to do with your ability to stand-by for R space. You should always be able to put yourself on the waiting list even if the chances of R>0 is nil.

ACflyerDE · Dec 16, 12, 4:25 pm

Did you check how J C D Z classes are looking? If everything is 0 and the Y cabin overbooked, isn't it possible that they have closed the waitlist for R just like they could close the waitlist for any other (discounted) revenue booking class?

D582 · Dec 16, 12, 4:38 pm

You said next week, so is it AC563 on 23 DEC? If so, it is showing that R class does not exist on that flight (and interestingly, neither does Z class). You cannot wait list for a class that does not exist. I'm not sure if this is intentional by AC or it is an IT glitch. Also, given that the flight is showing as Y0, it is likely completely full or oversold in Y.

Results from ExpertFlyer.com

Code:

Flight Availability Search
Departing SFO on 23/12/12 0:00 for YVR
Flying AC  
Direct/Non-Stop Only
Exclude Codeshares


                                                                     Frequency
Flight        Stops  Depart             Arrive             Aircraft  Reliability     Available Classes
0 Connections
AC 559        0      SFO                YVR                E90       Daily           J4 C4 D3 Z2 Y8 B8 M5 U3 H3 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 R1 
                     23/12/12 7:00      23/12/12 9:18                75% / 10m

0 Connections
AC 563        0      SFO                YVR                E90       Su,M,T,W,Th,F   J2 C2 D1 Y0 B0 M0 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 
                     23/12/12 11:40     23/12/12 13:58               38% / 55m

0 Connections
AC 565        0      SFO                YVR                E90       Daily           J2 C2 D1 Z1 Y4 B4 M0 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 R1 
                     23/12/12 18:55     23/12/12 21:10               57% / 24m

xray · Dec 16, 12, 4:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyzgigi

Whether or not this is true, it should have nothing to do with your ability to stand-by for R space. You should always be able to put yourself on the waiting list even if the chances of R>0 is nil.

That's what I figured...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACflyerDE

Did you check how J C D Z classes are looking? If everything is 0 and the Y cabin overbooked, isn't it possible that they have closed the waitlist for R just like they could close the waitlist for any other (discounted) revenue booking class?

It's J2C2D1 and zeroed in the back.

Anyhow, it's not a big deal but just the first time I have seen this...

xray · Dec 16, 12, 4:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by D582

You said next week, so is it AC563 on 23 DEC? If so, it is showing that R class does not exist on that flight (and interestingly, neither does Z class). You cannot wait list for a class that does not exist. I'm not sure if this is intentional by AC or it is an IT glitch. Also, given that the flight is showing as Y0, it is likely completely full or oversold in Y.

Nice sleuthing

Apparently, this is intentional...

KenHamer · Dec 16, 12, 6:11 pm

So far that appears to be the only flight without an R category showing.

Given AC IT, it could well be a glitch. Then again, given the agent's comments it could be intentional.

If so, then it might well be a new enhancement for next year -- instead of reducing R space to 0, simply eliminate it altogether.

Too early to tell yet though.

jlisi984 · Dec 16, 12, 6:43 pm

X-ray, follow up and let us know what it was!!

xray · Dec 16, 12, 7:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisi984

X-ray, follow up and let us know what it was!!

When I called back, the second agent thought maybe there was an equipment change, called Operations and then she confirmed what the first agent said... Apparently on certain flights, there will be no upgrades and there is no waitlist ?!

Anyway, it's J2 and I'll keep an eye on it throughout the week...

P.S. thanks jlisi984 for pretending you don't know who I am...

alexthe5th · Dec 17, 12, 3:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xray

Apparently on certain flights, there will be no upgrades and there is no waitlist

Yep, smells of another "enhancement" for next year's overhaul of the FF program. When I factor in the reality that AC effectively took away all my upgrade possibilities with the stealth introduction of Tango fares on TPAC flights this year, UA's value proposition looks better and better.

Upgrades are basically dead at AC.

yyzgigi · Dec 17, 12, 3:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xray

When I called back, the second agent thought maybe there was an equipment change, called Operations and then she confirmed what the first agent said... Apparently on certain flights, there will be no upgrades and there is no waitlist ?!

Anyway, it's J2 and I'll keep an eye on it throughout the week...

P.S. thanks jlisi984 for pretending you don't know who I am...

Will be interesting to see what happens on day of flight. In theory you can standby for an empty J seat even without R inventory as they don't pull from R at the gate.

Not sure what the point of taking R off the flight is, as is the same as an R that never goes above zero. I guess it is at least transparent that you might as well not waste your time on the standby list, but the result is likely the same. Aeroloto either way.