So my parents (aged 73 and 65) flew Exexcutive First YUL-YYZ-TLV in August with a return a month later
They want me to write a complain letter and I was wondering what the community thought might be worth mentioning or omitting.
Here's what happened:
YUL-YYZ Kosher meal was frozen and inedible
YYZ-TLV Kosher meal was frozen and inedible, FA was rude when asked if 10 men could congregate at the back of the plane to pray - Told my father to pray alone in his seat
Precedent: AF not only allowed but announced to all passengers
TLV-YYZ Late departure, late arrival
YYZ-YUL Missed first connection, ground staff took their boarding passes and gave them new ones - no further assistance or support - No kosher meal onboard - Resechduled flight also late - friend who waited for them at the airport left because he couldn't wait any longer, had no idea what was happening - Parents paid $65 for a car service and got home around midnight instead of 10PM - added to jetlag & discomfort.
They are now reticent to fly Air Canada ever again even if they did appreciate the lie flat beds and the direct Canada-TLV flight which meant less disruptions in terms of connections and customs as opposed to a Canada-US-TLV or Canada-Europe-TLV-route. And they usually travel to TLV every year or so. In addition, my father is a well-respected professional and community leader so his experience will influence many.
My father is now A3/*A Gold as a result of this trip.
Any suggestions on what to say/underline/omit would be appreciated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoyal
TLV-YYZ Late departure, late arrival
How long a delay? Was any reason for the delay given? While we lay delays at the airline's doorstop there may be a whole host of non-airline factors that could've caused it from ATC to security, especially given leaving TLV.
Just a thought and I'd focus on the other larger matters to make any letter written a little more concise.
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How long a delay? Was any reason for the delay given? While we lay delays at the airline's doorstop there may be a whole host of non-airline factors that could've caused it from ATC to security, especially given leaving TLV.
Just a thought and I'd focus on the other larger matters to make any letter written a little more concise.
Thanks for the reply!
I believe the reason *given* was headwinds - the TLV-YYZ delay isn't a problem in and of itself - but IIRC it was about an hour's delay
The bigger issue is that 65+ aged ExecutiveFirst passengers should be paid a bit more attention to, no?
Here is my take on "do vs. don't" for these items when it comes to submitting feedback to customer relations...
Do:
Let them know that special meals were improperly prepared and inedible because of that.
Don't:
Mention the 10 man prayer gathering... The FA should not have been rude, but it was likely his/her judgement call that it would be unsafe for that many people to congregate in one area. Similarly, an FA wouldn't allow that many people to congregate while waiting for a washroom. That said, it's nice that AF allowed it. I just don't think AC policies would.
Don't:
Mention late departure and arrival. Two hours late arrival home isn't that bad. AC is not responsible for their airport to home transportation. Special meals can't be guaranteed in situations like this either, unfortunately. The only thing that might be worth mentioning here is if they were denied requests for any necessary mobility assistance or further direction within the airport.
In my opinion, the meal issues are valid complaints, and the rest are just unfortunate aspects of air travel. If you feel like staff rudeness or neglect were significant, you could mention those as well. Just be specific and concise about it.
Good luck!
Last edited by gateguard0; Dec 11, 12 at 11:53 am..
Here is my take on "do vs. don't" for these items when it comes to submitting feedback to customer relations...
Do:
Let them know that special meals were improperly prepared and inedible because of that.
Don't:
Mention the 10 man prayer gathering... The FA should not have been rude, but it was likely his/her judgement call that it would be unsafe for that many people to congregate in one area. Similarly, an FA wouldn't allow that many people to congregate while waiting for a washroom. That said, it's nice that AF allowed it. I just don't think AC policies would.
Don't:
Mention late departure and arrival. Two hours late arrival home isn't that bad. AC is not responsible for their airport to home transportation. Special meals can't be guaranteed in situations like this either, unfortunately. The only thing that might be worth mentioning here is if they were denied requests for any necessary mobility assistance or further direction within the airport.
In my opinion, the meal issues are valid complaints, and the rest are just unfortunate aspects of air travel. If you feel like staff rudeness or neglect were significant, you could mention those as well. Just be specific and concise about it.
Good luck!
Thanks! At my parents' age and following a long flight (TLV to YYZ is 12,5 hours) arriving home around midnight vs 10 PM is a fairly big deal. Not to mention that they could have at least offered to help with getting in touch with Montreal to make sure they got home OK. Maybe I'm wrong but they didn't travel Y class after all.
AC and CO have paid for me to get home when their flights were delayed/cancelled in the past.
But you're right - what's important is the meal preparation and staff attitude.
Thanks! At my parents' age and following a long flight (TLV to YYZ is 12,5 hours) arriving home around midnight vs 10 PM is a fairly big deal. Not to mention that they could have at least offered to help with getting in touch with Montreal to make sure they got home OK. Maybe I'm wrong but they didn't travel Y class after all.
AC and CO have paid for me to get home when their flights were delayed/cancelled in the past.
But you're right - what's important is the meal preparation and staff attitude.
I understand it probably wasn't the first thing on your parents' minds after a long flight and missed connection, but at the same time, I can't fault an airline for not proactively considering how the late arrival might impact individuals beyond the air component of their travel. The agents are just people after all... not mind readers. I think now that many people have their own cell phones, we take for granted that some people may still need assistance.
If your parents tried to get help with this and were ignored, that is certainly an issue.
In writing your feedback, I'd keep that in mind. Cheers!
I understand it probably wasn't the first thing on your parents' minds after a long flight and missed connection, but at the same time, I can't fault an airline for not proactively considering how the late arrival might impact individuals beyond the air component of their travel. The agents are just people after all... not mind readers. I think now that many people have their own cell phones, we take for granted that some people may still need assistance.
If your parents tried to get help with this and were ignored, that is certainly an issue.
In writing your feedback, I'd keep that in mind. Cheers!
Thanks! At my parents' age and following a long flight (TLV to YYZ is 12,5 hours) arriving home around midnight vs 10 PM is a fairly big deal. Not to mention that they could have at least offered to help with getting in touch with Montreal to make sure they got home OK. Maybe I'm wrong but they didn't travel Y class after all.
AC and CO have paid for me to get home when their flights were delayed/cancelled in the past.
But you're right - what's important is the meal preparation and staff attitude.
Are your parents in good health? Do they speak decent English? If not, I understand your concern, but if they are healthy and can fend for themselves in everyday life, please understand you're being a helicopter child. 65 is not old. Even 73 is not old. Our retirement age in Canada is going up to 67. Pilots over 60 now can fly the same aircraft. The meal issues are real and complaint worthy but let's not get out a crying towel for the late arrival of the aircraft by an hour or two. I'm not much younger than your mother. My sister in law is your mother's age, and flies Toronto-Tel Aviv three or four times a year. Absent any indication to the contrary, it's not as if your parents speak only Yiddish and are wheel-chair bound.
Are your parents in good health? Do they speak decent English? If not, I understand your concern, but if they are healthy and can fend for themselves in everyday life, please understand you're being a helicopter child. 65 is not old. Even 73 is not old. Our retirement age in Canada is going up to 67. Pilots over 60 now can fly the same aircraft. The meal issues are real and complaint worthy but let's not get out a crying towel for the late arrival of the aircraft by an hour or two. I'm not much younger than your mother. My sister in law is your mother's age, and flies Toronto-Tel Aviv three or four times a year. Absent any indication to the contrary, it's not as if your parents speak only Yiddish and are wheel-chair bound.
My father has a heart condition and they speak French as their main language - the staff were unattentive, borderline rude - Regardless of age and health, it would not have hurt the staff to be a bit more attentive. Travel disruptions can be disorienting at any age. Personally, I would have addressed this head while it was happening but they didn't know any better.
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I operate the route often, and am merely playing Devil's advocate here. Any concerns or complaints you have are valid. My main question would be, were any of these issues raised on board at the time allowing for immediate resolution?? Kosher meals out of most stations are prepared, frozen and boarded. YUL/YYZ more than likely was a sandwich snack with YYZ/TLV being more elaborate. If the entree was not heated properly, with the proper acknowledgement, that could have been fixed. If any tray component was not properly thawed, there are ample kosher food items on board that could have been put together. Regarding the KSML on the final YYZ-YUL leg, it would not have been carried over onto an alternate flight unless special arrangements were made. Furthermore, were these issues brought to the attention of either of the two Service Directors on board??
Praying on board is part of the nuance of TLV flights. It often coincides just before the 2nd meal service and if possible we try to time it so it doesn't interfere with service delivery. We have to coexist in fairly confined quarters, and praying usually takes place in the mid-galley on the 767. Kudos to AF if they were actively promoting a "minyan". I would suggest that this was a one of, and not the norm. Good on them!
Further to Sebring's comments, my Mother who falls in the age range of your parents would be aghast if somebody offered her assistance. If your parents were in need of mobility or special assistance, unless previously requested, please make your needs known prior to arrival - the advice can be sent ahead.
It's always good rule of thumb to forward letters of concern/complaint shortly following the actual travel experience. Given the volume of flying that we do, it's questionable whether crew members (should they be contacted) would remember a special meal irregularity that occurred several months previous.
I wish you and your parents safe travels in the future.
I operate the route often, and am merely playing Devil's advocate here. Any concerns or complaints you have are valid. My main question would be, were any of these issues raised on board at the time allowing for immediate resolution?? Kosher meals out of most stations are prepared, frozen and boarded. YUL/YYZ more than likely was a sandwich snack with YYZ/TLV being more elaborate. If the entree was not heated properly, with the proper acknowledgement, that could have been fixed. If any tray component was not properly thawed, there are ample kosher food items on board that could have been put together. Regarding the KSML on the final YYZ-YUL leg, it would not have been carried over onto an alternate flight unless special arrangements were made. Furthermore, were these issues brought to the attention of either of the two Service Directors on board??
Praying on board is part of the nuance of TLV flights. It often coincides just before the 2nd meal service and if possible we try to time it so it doesn't interfere with service delivery. We have to coexist in fairly confined quarters, and praying usually takes place in the mid-galley on the 767. Kudos to AF if they were actively promoting a "minyan". I would suggest that this was a one of, and not the norm. Good on them!
Further to Sebring's comments, my Mother who falls in the age range of your parents would be aghast if somebody offered her assistance. If your parents were in need of mobility or special assistance, unless previously requested, please make your needs known prior to arrival - the advice can be sent ahead.
It's always good rule of thumb to forward letters of concern/complaint shortly following the actual travel experience. Given the volume of flying that we do, it's questionable whether crew members (should they be contacted) would remember a special meal irregularity that occurred several months previous.
I wish you and your parents safe travels in the future.
Thank you for this. I agree that they should have addressed it right away but they've asked me to deal with it now so I.m going to do my best.
Since YUL-YYZ was indeed a sandwich they say the FA felt there was nothing for her to do to fix it. As for the YYZ-TLV meal, I'm not sure what happened - my fatehr said it was frozen and returned at such.
My parents don't know how to deal with situations like these which is why they have asked for my help. Having a lot of travel experience and having worked in customer service for many years in my past careers, I would have known exactly what to do on the spot. They've only just approached me about this now.
When I say assistance, I meant something along the lines of meeting them at the gate or even after customs to make sure they knew what was happening and that they were OK to get home, as a courtesy. All they had was someone take their boarding passes from them in the connections "channel" at Pearson and give them new ones.
As for the YYZ-YUL KSML, my parents ordered all their meals in mid-June when they booked the trip. Is that what you mean by a special arragement? Surely the manifest shows their meal order and if it was loaded onto their original connection it could have be rerouted once it became clear that they would not make their connection. That or they could have been given a voucher to eat something in the airport, maybe? Especially considering the further delay of their new connection.
My father's prayer request was flatly turned down - Not Can you wait until a better time? or Can you do it in the mid-galley instead? He was curtly told to do it at his seat by himself.
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to this.
What can a best scenario outcome be? Does anybody know?
Because they may not have cell phones much less smartphones or laptops, the knowledge of what information is available to them using these devices and, also, they've paid for a certain level of service?
