Singapore FIRST AVALIBILITY
#211
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
SQ is simply exercising that right. Conversely, AC can do the same to SQ Krisflyer members.
If you go to Manage My Bookings to see the full itinerary/receipt, you will see that warning boldly printed on the top.
#212
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE-MM, BA Bronze, Marriott Titanium & lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,820
Yep - my SQ F SFO-ICN leg has disappeared from my itinerary on the Aeroplan website (it's just left with an unexplained gap between SFO and ICN). Without any notification from Aeroplan yet...
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
Last edited by krayZpaving; Jul 12, 2012 at 6:38 am
#213
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HKG/YVR/NYC
Programs: AC 75K, A3*G, AS MVPG, AA LT Gold 1MM, JL/JGC (OWS) , Marriott Titanium, Hertz 5*, Avis PC
Posts: 3,697
Yep - my SQ F SFO-ICN leg has disappeared from my itinerary on the Aeroplan website (it's just left with an unexplained gap between SFO and ICN). Without any notification from Aeroplan yet...
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
As previously posted and stated on the itinerary/receipt issued by AC, the operating airline (SQ) has the right to reject the sale within 48 hours after purchase.
SQ is simply exercising that right. Conversely, AC can do the same to SQ Krisflyer members.
If you go to Manage My Bookings to see the full itinerary/receipt, you will see that warning boldly printed on the top.
SQ is simply exercising that right. Conversely, AC can do the same to SQ Krisflyer members.
If you go to Manage My Bookings to see the full itinerary/receipt, you will see that warning boldly printed on the top.
But you guys might want to hold on a second, just because the terms and conditions allows it to do so doesn't necessarily mean the law "US DoT" allows it to do so
If you have a ticket number and everything, and your flight touches the US, then you might have a case with the US DoT and if anyone of you have seen the fallout of the KE F ex-RGN fare, anything can happen
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/EAP...-2012final.pdf
8. Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712.
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
#215
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
But you guys might want to hold on a second, just because the terms and conditions allows it to do so doesn't necessarily mean the law "US DoT" allows it to do so
If you have a ticket number and everything, and your flight touches the US, then you might have a case with the US DoT and if anyone of you have seen the fallout of the KE F ex-RGN fare, anything can happen
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/EAP...-2012final.pdf
8. Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712.
If you have a ticket number and everything, and your flight touches the US, then you might have a case with the US DoT and if anyone of you have seen the fallout of the KE F ex-RGN fare, anything can happen
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/EAP...-2012final.pdf
8. Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712.
We are not talking about a revenue ticket.
#216
Join Date: May 2007
Location: YYZ, but my heart is in Asia
Programs: AC-SE, CX-DM, DL-G, Hyatt-DM, Hilton-DM, Fairmont-Plt, Marriott-S, Accor-Plt, SPG-G, IHG-Plt
Posts: 4,396
If you use 100 AP points to get you a toaster, pay the shipping charge and have it delivered to your home. AP can't turn around and say they have made a mistake, the toaster should have cost 100K AP points and demand more AP points or go to your house and take it back.
Once ticketed and payment received, the deal is done.
#217
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
Yep - my SQ F SFO-ICN leg has disappeared from my itinerary on the Aeroplan website (it's just left with an unexplained gap between SFO and ICN). Without any notification from Aeroplan yet...
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
My itinerary as emailed to me says "Electronic ticketing confirmed" and has "Confirmed" written beside each segment (including the SQ F one). Nowhere on the itinerary/receipt or in the email to which it was attached does it say the sale can be rejected by any of the airlines involved.
You need to go to "Manage My Bookings" at www.aircanada.ca. Enter the PNR to retrieve the file, click on the print itinerary/receipt button and you will see that warning message.
#218
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
YQ, taxes and booking fees count as payment.
If you use 100 AP points to get you a toaster, pay the shipping charge and have it delivered to your home. AP can't turn around and say they have made a mistake, the toaster should have cost 100K AP points and demand more AP points or go to your house and take it back.
Once ticketed and payment received, the deal is done.
If you use 100 AP points to get you a toaster, pay the shipping charge and have it delivered to your home. AP can't turn around and say they have made a mistake, the toaster should have cost 100K AP points and demand more AP points or go to your house and take it back.
Once ticketed and payment received, the deal is done.
#219
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HKG/YVR/NYC
Programs: AC 75K, A3*G, AS MVPG, AA LT Gold 1MM, JL/JGC (OWS) , Marriott Titanium, Hertz 5*, Avis PC
Posts: 3,697
But if you back at the law, it depends on your interpretation
Revenue Ticket = Money paid for fare and taxes
Award Ticket = Miles + Money for Taxes
Are those two above the same thing?
If you got a ticket and confirmation email detailing all the flights, showing you paid via miles plus taxes. If you look below at the bolded part
Purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer, sounds like you paid to me since you agreed to use miles plus any additional money for taxes
A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
#220
Join Date: May 2007
Location: YYZ, but my heart is in Asia
Programs: AC-SE, CX-DM, DL-G, Hyatt-DM, Hilton-DM, Fairmont-Plt, Marriott-S, Accor-Plt, SPG-G, IHG-Plt
Posts: 4,396
If SQ dares canceling my booking, I would for sure file a complaint to DOT.
As much as I hate going via the US, I deliberately booked a segment in the US for this purpose, as an insurance against SQ canceling the booking.@:-)
As much as I hate going via the US, I deliberately booked a segment in the US for this purpose, as an insurance against SQ canceling the booking.@:-)
#221
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HKG/YVR/NYC
Programs: AC 75K, A3*G, AS MVPG, AA LT Gold 1MM, JL/JGC (OWS) , Marriott Titanium, Hertz 5*, Avis PC
Posts: 3,697
I would even argue the 48 hour reject rule goes against the law and should be nullified in this instance
The 48 hour reject rule essentially is a right to cancel such ticketed purchase
as part of the contract of carriage and the law states that is a unfair and deceptive practice
Of course if your ticket doesn't touch the US then you are toasted
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712.
The 48 hour reject rule essentially is a right to cancel such ticketed purchase
as part of the contract of carriage and the law states that is a unfair and deceptive practice
Of course if your ticket doesn't touch the US then you are toasted
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712.
#222
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HKG/YVR/NYC
Programs: AC 75K, A3*G, AS MVPG, AA LT Gold 1MM, JL/JGC (OWS) , Marriott Titanium, Hertz 5*, Avis PC
Posts: 3,697
Same here I made sure my parents (037 stock, SQ F) HKG-FCO ticket was routed via SFO on the way back as insurance ^^
#223
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
I know we're not talking about a revenue ticket, but you guys will be the guinea pigs for this since its an award ticket and no one has any experience on award ticket to my knowledge
But if you back at the law, it depends on your interpretation
Revenue Ticket = Money paid for fare and taxes
Award Ticket = Miles + Money for Taxes
Are those two above the same thing?
If you got a ticket and confirmation email detailing all the flights, showing you paid via miles plus taxes. If you look below at the bolded part
Purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer, sounds like you paid to me since you agreed to use miles plus any additional money for taxes
A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
But if you back at the law, it depends on your interpretation
Revenue Ticket = Money paid for fare and taxes
Award Ticket = Miles + Money for Taxes
Are those two above the same thing?
If you got a ticket and confirmation email detailing all the flights, showing you paid via miles plus taxes. If you look below at the bolded part
Purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer, sounds like you paid to me since you agreed to use miles plus any additional money for taxes
A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
I recall a few Christmas ago, AC had a mistake fare from Canada to California (SFO?) on its web site and AC eventually only allowed one seat per booking and cancelled the rest in the same PNR. Anyone remember that one with more details? This was a situation involving a U.S. destination.
#224
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HKG/YVR/NYC
Programs: AC 75K, A3*G, AS MVPG, AA LT Gold 1MM, JL/JGC (OWS) , Marriott Titanium, Hertz 5*, Avis PC
Posts: 3,697
I don't know but I can tell you Air Canada's position on this. Reward tickets are free tickets and non revenue. Air Canada does not recognise the fact that you have "paid" for your tickets with points. It maybe that Canadian law allows it to do so. Personally, I disagree. I see points as a form a rebate from purchases that allows me to use them to barter for goods and services at some future time. Aeroplan also allows member to buy points at about $0.03 per point.
Air Canada's position on this is not important since its a government that will be threating with fines for violating the law
This law has only been effective Jan 22, 2012 so it would be a new frontier to cross.
Flyertalker United and cross that frontiers with the Rangoon revenue fares, we can always cross another