rankourabu

Can you prove they are not pocketing scamcharges?

Again, the only true evidence is the statement by AE that the money is charged on behalf of the ticketing carrier. That is where the money trail stops - Air Canada. Until it is proven otherwise, the written facts is all we have.

yulred

I don't think anyone is accusing AC of 'stealing' anything. At the most, we're mocking it for being so disingenuous and trying to take us for fools.

I'll tell you what. We'll prove that AC is keeping (simpler word) the money if you prove that YQ (in general, or at AC) is collected exclusively on the basis of fuel costs and is used exclusively to cover fuel costs.

The problem is that no one knows the true cost of the tickets, namely what AC/AE are paying to partner airlines. What we do know is that some inventory within AE is sold at *A redemption rates, while some is sold by, effectively, converting miles into cash. This leads me to believe that there are special rates for award tickets within *A (probably not market prices), and when those get exhausted, AE offers tickets through a mile->cash conversion at market rates (where they cost an exhorbitant amount of miles).

Many of us here find it hard to believe that the *A rate at which tickets are sold (or traded between *A airlines) is the same as the market price. We suspect that the cost of fuel is folded into them (otherwise the YQ implementation took a heckuva long time to figure out - 4 years?!). It leaves us believing that there is no YQ on those tickets. I don't see why there would be, since the cost is not being advertised (and thereofore outside advertising laws/IATA fare schedules). As such its an intra-alliance transaction - and I don't think anyone in there would gain anything by slapping on a YQ to charge other airlines.

Therefore we find it disingenuous that AC is trying to pass off this YQ as something that is correlated to airline charges. We don't know what TK charges AC for a J seat, but it is unlikely to be the ticket price on the day (otherwise why maintain a reward inventory). And I doubt that ticket is sold as a Base fare + YQ deal. Hence the lack of empathy for AC.

To top it off, we aren't quite convinced that YQ is based on fuel prices or that it is used exclusively for fuel prices. I am sure you will prove us wrong.

And while you're at it, you can sort out one more bugbear for us. We know money is going into AC with these YQs. We can't figure out how much of this YQ is leaving the company and going to alliance partners. Since you're a shareholder in this publicly traded company, perhaps you will point us towards where we can find this information? I suspect you'll find it nigh on impossible, because publicly traded or not, AC isn't making the data available. Why, the world wonders.

And no, AC isn't doing anything illegal through this scheme. Certainly nothing more illegal than trying to pass off the fuel surcharge as being related to fuel prices and covering only fuel costs.

So, lets hear it, Shareholder.

EWRTravelers

But can AMEX MR be converted to USAirways?

tcook052

I've updated the list of airline in post #2 to include SN & JP as it was noted early in 2012 in this advisory that fuel surcharges would be collected on award booking on those airlines in addition to the others previously included.

If we can keep this list as accurate as possible it'll help everyone in the long-haul.

WhiteYUL

^ Thanks, tcook052.

CZBB

FRAUD: In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain ... (Wikipedia)

FRAUD: a) deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right; b) an act of deceiving or misrepresenting (Miriam Webster)

How is it not deception/perversion of the truth to charge a fuel surcharge which exceeds the per-seat fuel cost?

Take Air Canada's #1 overseas route: YYZ-LHR-YYZ
YYZ-LHR-YYZ: 7112 miles
AC's 2012 Q2 fuel costs, per seat mile: $0.057
hence, per seat fuel cost for YYZ-LHR-YYZ: $405.38
Fuel Scamcharge as charged by Air Canada: $412


Also, check the wording on Aeroplan's website "Fuel Surcharges are passed to the ticketing carrier" which is Air Canada (note how they don't say operating carrier)

robsaw

As much as that statement is factual, it isn't actual evidence of anything except that the "ticketing carrier", as the agent for the "sale" of the ticket, gets the $, like they do in many other circumstances; it doesn't imply anything at all about what happens to it after that. Aeroplan's statement is there to explain and protect Aeroplan from accusations that Aeroplan is the party that keeps the surcharges. Aeroplan has no contractual obligation or even expectation of knowledge of what happens to funds after they are passed-on to AC.

Not saying AC doesn't keep the surcharge but Aeroplan's statement is not evidence of whether it does or doesn't.

mia

Thank you, this will be a good reference for the forums I moderate. I appreciate that you took the time.

getaround

Get in now folks because like everything else once this continues to be published and become viral we will see all operators charging for fuel.

Because of chatter mileage rares have gone up, the Mini RTW is being shut down, and first is now being blocked also.

operajoe

I've not been able to find an answer to my question. I posted it on the *A forum but have no reply, given their low traffic level. Could somebody please help me with this question? Full text below -

*****************
Please accept my apologies as I'm new at this and couldn't find the answer to my question on this forum or in AC Aeroplan forum...

I want to book an award tix YYZ to MUC next July using Aeroplan Miles and avoid the exorbitant fuel surcharges on AC and LH metal. I want to fly UA, US, or any other *A partners with low fuel surcharge.

I used the AE search engine and couldn't find any R/T award tix on UA or US. I understand LO has low fuel surcharge, but the only thing I found was outbound on LO and returning on LH or AC. It seems the Aeroplan search engine is simply not displaying all the partner airline award seats. Is there a way of booking a low fuel surcharge *A carrier from the Aeroplan website? Failing that, is it possible to book UA or US award ticket from their respective websites using Aeroplan miles? I do have a Mileage Plus and Dividend Miles membership, but I don't have enough miles in these programs to do anything...

Any help greatly appreciated!

tcook052

The forum FAQ sticky at the top of the forum does have frequent topics including this one so it's a good place to start for newcomers. That thread BTW is here

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...-travel-2.html

and I'll merge your thread with it.

Also for future reference starting duplicate topics on multiple FT forums is not encouraged.

tcook052
AC Forum Moderator

mia

No, you must book through the program whose miles you will redeem. This means you must book through Aeroplan at Aeroplan's redemption rates, and based on Aeroplan's award inventory on the partner airlines, which may not be the same as the availability for those airlines' own programs.

operajoe

Many thanks for your answer to my question. I guess I am stuck with AE's high fuel surcharges on award tickets. If I were to call AE and talk to a real live person, would the CSR be able to find inventory that don't appear in the AE search engine? Just a thought...

I am going to credit all 2013 miles to UA Mileage Plus from now on. After 26 years as a loyal AE member, I have decided to finally cut the cord. This whole Tango vs. Tango+ status miles things has really left a bad taste in my mouth. It is shocking that if I fly AC Tango and credit the flight to UA Mileage Plus, I get 100% status miles, but when crediting to AC/AE it is 50%.

sp4294

Don't dispair. Look at UA.com or the ANA website (search on how to access) to find your flight segments (saver levels) as these are usually bookable on AE even if Ae doesn't show them, and then spoonfeed them to the Aeroplan agents when you call AE. Should be easily doable for low YQ flights ie: UA, US, CA, TK, etc. but you won't know the actual YQ amounts until the AE CSR prices it out for you. If you find an itinerary that you like, post it here and the more knowlegable members can usually give you a rough idea. The AE website is now defaulting to AC or LH etc. flights with high YQ so that they can rip you off! They are not going to give it to you that easily.

AnitaBryant63

Does TK charge YQ to its own TK award tickets?