Kilimanjaro and Tanzania Safari
#2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 325
I climbed Kili so long ago (1973) that my experience probably isn't of much help to you--except that it was truly wonderful!
As for a safari guide, you might check out this thread about a highly recommended guide whom my wife and I went with in 2013:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/afric...n-mnyenye.html
Enjoy!
As for a safari guide, you might check out this thread about a highly recommended guide whom my wife and I went with in 2013:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/afric...n-mnyenye.html
Enjoy!
#3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TPA
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, FM Prem, SPG gold
Posts: 581
Climbing it in March and will report back. The planning process has gone well with a local agency.
$$$-US based agency
$$-Tanzania agency
$-Arrive and find empty trek slot week of.
$$$-US based agency
$$-Tanzania agency
$-Arrive and find empty trek slot week of.
#4
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
I was looking at a place called "Easy Travel and Tours." Also going to look at the place the 2nd poster included. I just want to make sure the lodging is adequate for the safari part. Really don't want to stay in a place where tarantalas and giant spiders are going to be crawling on me.
#5
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: United States
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 3
Hi TMM1982 - My wife and I did a combination Kili climb (8 days) and Tanzania safari (8 days) in Feb 2015. We chose ClimbKili for the climb part and Access2Tanzania for the safari part. The A2T folks were amazing, from initial phone calls and email questions to the on-the-ground experience. Will never forget them. In fact, I still email our guide every month or so. The ClimbKili part was above average to what I saw some others experience on the mountain, but I was not wowed by them. I also am not convinced that they compensated the porters very well, but do not have hard evidence either way.
Here is my TripAdvisor review of Access2Tanzania: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...ha_Region.html
I know this is my first post on FlyerTalk. On the other hand, the TA review above is one of 200+, so I hope that counts for something. I was looking for info on Marrakech and saw your post under "Africa", so thought I'd jump in an add $0.02.
Here is my TripAdvisor review of Access2Tanzania: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...ha_Region.html
I know this is my first post on FlyerTalk. On the other hand, the TA review above is one of 200+, so I hope that counts for something. I was looking for info on Marrakech and saw your post under "Africa", so thought I'd jump in an add $0.02.
#6
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Wayzata, MN
Programs: Signature Travel Network, Safari Professionals
Posts: 24
Hello TMM1982,
Thank you very much for the post. As your question is rather general, I will try to address your topic at a very high level. Both Kilimanjaro and Safari in Tanzania are extraordinary experiences with lots of variables so it’s nearly impossible to give precise advice without knowing exactly what you are looking for.
Let me start with Kilimanjaro.
In terms of “experience”, you’ve got to accept that Kilimanjaro is a well traversed mountain and is a very commercial operation. If you are a keen alpinist, it’s not a remote mountaineering experience – it’s a bucket list item resulting in hundreds of climbers entering the park every day. Are there purer and more beautiful climbing experiences in “Africa”? I’d say yes – just look at Mt. Kenya, the Rwenzoris or even the Simien Mountains. I've done them all. With that said, it’s a stunning experience to be at the roof of Africa at 19,340ft – the experience for many is life changing. You will endure long days of hiking (don’t underestimate the descent day), bitter cold conditions, wind, and massive headaches due to altitude. As the say, “pole pole” or slowly, slowly is the motto on the mountain and the painfully slow pace as seem monotonous, but it will significantly increase your chances of summiting. The scenery from the Barranco Valley is stunning with the bizzare flora of the senecio trees; reminiscent of my childhood Dr. Seuss books. The comradery that you build with the team and other climbers is often lifelong and the sense of accomplishment, especially if you are not a climber or alpinist is massive. Before long, the glaciers in the crater will disappear – exploring the crater amongst the towering glaciers is an experience I will never forget.
Here’s some pointers on route:
Marangu a.k.a. Coka Cola – this is the most commercial and most traversed route with huts and public toilet facilities along the way. I’d avoid this if possible, but from a cost perspective, probably the cheapest.
Machame a.k.a. Whiskey – this is the most direct route and merges with the Shira/Lemosho route on day 2. I’d say that this route, along with Shira/Lemosho are the most scenic. Depending upon your level of climbing/fitness, the Western Breach is an option from this route. Some moderate exposure.
Shira/Lemosho – the longest of the commercial routes and merges with Machame on day 3. Gives you most nights at elevation with the theory that you will acclimatize more. Moderate exposure.
Rongai – coming in from the north/Kenyan side, this is the most gradual ascent with stunning viewing from the “saddle” between Mawenzi and Kibo massif. Little to no exposure. Great for entry level climbers and the least traversed route.
Umbwe – a more technical route, more exposure, recommended for alpinists looking to bag the 7 summits.
Mweka – the descent route for all climbers. Yes, everyone comes down the same way.
Now, let’s talk seasons. Take into consideration that a mountain of this size does create its own weather at times so this is a general guideline.
Mid-January to mid-March: lower chances of rain at lower to mid elevations. Summit is not too cold. Great time to climb.
Mid-March through May: high chances of rain at lower and mid elevations. High chances of snow at near the summit. Most challenging conditions.
June through July: lower chances of rain at lower and mid elevations. Very cold near summit. Good time to climb.
August to mid-October: low chances of rain at low to mid elevations. Great time to climb.
Mid-October through mid-January: highly variable climbing conditions with medium chances for rain at low and mid elevations. Moderate chances of snow.
I have no idea what your physical fitness level is, but keep in mind that everyone’s physiology is different and even marathon runners can get acute mountain sickness or even HACE (high altitude cerebral edema). Take Diamox with you.
Now, your climb experience can also be determined by the outfit you pick. It’s a high mountain with potential for weather. Make sure that whatever outfit you choose has good working 4 season camping gear. Ask about sanitation when it comes to food prep (many don’t summit due to getting “sick” on the mountain) and how they filter their water. Most importantly, ask about their guide qualifications. It actually doesn’t take much to be a mountain guide on Kilimanjaro. Western companies (more money as previously indicated) probably do more in terms of guide training beyond the minimum requirement. Alpine medicine and Wilderness First Responder (WFR) are important. Make sure that the guides certifications are current and they take the recommended refresher courses. You are climbing at potentially dangerous elevations. You don’t want to cheap out when it comes to the above.
Finally, you may want to take a look at the partnered companies of the Kilimanjaro Porters Assistance Project (www.kiliporters.org). They recognize all of the companies that adhere to ethical treatment of porters. Many companies of the cheap don’t provide adequate gear for porters nor pay them a decent wage (they reply on tips for compensation)
Now, in terms of Safari, this is topic can get quite lengthy. In terms of experience, I am a Safari nut – it’s a deeply satisfying experience and tell people that being on safari is nourishing for the soul. Not many places in the world offer you a glimpse of what the world may have looked like millions of years ago. It will connect you to the natural world like no other experience.
In terms of pricing, safaris run the gamut from budget camping trips to luxury properties that charge around $1500/person/night. It really depends. The park you choose, the season, location of the camp and quality of guiding are often the variables that dictate your experience. Kilimanjaro is limited in terms of options, safari is limitless. What I’d encourage you to do is to contact a safari specialist to walk you through all of the options. Generally speaking, you want to avoid the super rainy months of November, March-May. The rains can hinder your experience. If you give me a rough budget and amount of time you are looking to spend of safari, I can give you more information.
Anyhow, I hope the above has been helpful. Both Kilimanjaro and Safari are remarkable experiences. There is a reason why people return to Africa time and time again.
Kota Tabuchi - Managing Director for Africa - Travel Beyond
Thank you very much for the post. As your question is rather general, I will try to address your topic at a very high level. Both Kilimanjaro and Safari in Tanzania are extraordinary experiences with lots of variables so it’s nearly impossible to give precise advice without knowing exactly what you are looking for.
Let me start with Kilimanjaro.
In terms of “experience”, you’ve got to accept that Kilimanjaro is a well traversed mountain and is a very commercial operation. If you are a keen alpinist, it’s not a remote mountaineering experience – it’s a bucket list item resulting in hundreds of climbers entering the park every day. Are there purer and more beautiful climbing experiences in “Africa”? I’d say yes – just look at Mt. Kenya, the Rwenzoris or even the Simien Mountains. I've done them all. With that said, it’s a stunning experience to be at the roof of Africa at 19,340ft – the experience for many is life changing. You will endure long days of hiking (don’t underestimate the descent day), bitter cold conditions, wind, and massive headaches due to altitude. As the say, “pole pole” or slowly, slowly is the motto on the mountain and the painfully slow pace as seem monotonous, but it will significantly increase your chances of summiting. The scenery from the Barranco Valley is stunning with the bizzare flora of the senecio trees; reminiscent of my childhood Dr. Seuss books. The comradery that you build with the team and other climbers is often lifelong and the sense of accomplishment, especially if you are not a climber or alpinist is massive. Before long, the glaciers in the crater will disappear – exploring the crater amongst the towering glaciers is an experience I will never forget.
Here’s some pointers on route:
Marangu a.k.a. Coka Cola – this is the most commercial and most traversed route with huts and public toilet facilities along the way. I’d avoid this if possible, but from a cost perspective, probably the cheapest.
Machame a.k.a. Whiskey – this is the most direct route and merges with the Shira/Lemosho route on day 2. I’d say that this route, along with Shira/Lemosho are the most scenic. Depending upon your level of climbing/fitness, the Western Breach is an option from this route. Some moderate exposure.
Shira/Lemosho – the longest of the commercial routes and merges with Machame on day 3. Gives you most nights at elevation with the theory that you will acclimatize more. Moderate exposure.
Rongai – coming in from the north/Kenyan side, this is the most gradual ascent with stunning viewing from the “saddle” between Mawenzi and Kibo massif. Little to no exposure. Great for entry level climbers and the least traversed route.
Umbwe – a more technical route, more exposure, recommended for alpinists looking to bag the 7 summits.
Mweka – the descent route for all climbers. Yes, everyone comes down the same way.
Now, let’s talk seasons. Take into consideration that a mountain of this size does create its own weather at times so this is a general guideline.
Mid-January to mid-March: lower chances of rain at lower to mid elevations. Summit is not too cold. Great time to climb.
Mid-March through May: high chances of rain at lower and mid elevations. High chances of snow at near the summit. Most challenging conditions.
June through July: lower chances of rain at lower and mid elevations. Very cold near summit. Good time to climb.
August to mid-October: low chances of rain at low to mid elevations. Great time to climb.
Mid-October through mid-January: highly variable climbing conditions with medium chances for rain at low and mid elevations. Moderate chances of snow.
I have no idea what your physical fitness level is, but keep in mind that everyone’s physiology is different and even marathon runners can get acute mountain sickness or even HACE (high altitude cerebral edema). Take Diamox with you.
Now, your climb experience can also be determined by the outfit you pick. It’s a high mountain with potential for weather. Make sure that whatever outfit you choose has good working 4 season camping gear. Ask about sanitation when it comes to food prep (many don’t summit due to getting “sick” on the mountain) and how they filter their water. Most importantly, ask about their guide qualifications. It actually doesn’t take much to be a mountain guide on Kilimanjaro. Western companies (more money as previously indicated) probably do more in terms of guide training beyond the minimum requirement. Alpine medicine and Wilderness First Responder (WFR) are important. Make sure that the guides certifications are current and they take the recommended refresher courses. You are climbing at potentially dangerous elevations. You don’t want to cheap out when it comes to the above.
Finally, you may want to take a look at the partnered companies of the Kilimanjaro Porters Assistance Project (www.kiliporters.org). They recognize all of the companies that adhere to ethical treatment of porters. Many companies of the cheap don’t provide adequate gear for porters nor pay them a decent wage (they reply on tips for compensation)
Now, in terms of Safari, this is topic can get quite lengthy. In terms of experience, I am a Safari nut – it’s a deeply satisfying experience and tell people that being on safari is nourishing for the soul. Not many places in the world offer you a glimpse of what the world may have looked like millions of years ago. It will connect you to the natural world like no other experience.
In terms of pricing, safaris run the gamut from budget camping trips to luxury properties that charge around $1500/person/night. It really depends. The park you choose, the season, location of the camp and quality of guiding are often the variables that dictate your experience. Kilimanjaro is limited in terms of options, safari is limitless. What I’d encourage you to do is to contact a safari specialist to walk you through all of the options. Generally speaking, you want to avoid the super rainy months of November, March-May. The rains can hinder your experience. If you give me a rough budget and amount of time you are looking to spend of safari, I can give you more information.
Anyhow, I hope the above has been helpful. Both Kilimanjaro and Safari are remarkable experiences. There is a reason why people return to Africa time and time again.
Kota Tabuchi - Managing Director for Africa - Travel Beyond
#7
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: DFW (Highland Village)
Programs: AA Lifetime GLD, SPG Lifetime GLD
Posts: 384
My son and I climbed Kili back in 2006 and did 9 days of safari in the Northern Parks. We used Roy Safaris for both portions of the trip. We are headed back in June of this year and booked with Roy's again, albeit no Kili climb this year, just safari.
We did the coca-cola route back in 2016 and the summit day is long on the route. At that point in my hiking "career" I was more comfortable with the fixed camps associated with that route versus the routes that require you to set-up your camp each night. Now, I would probably make the opposite decision
Safari lodging runs from backpacking tents, to mid-level lodges to fixed tented lodges to high-end mobile tented camps that appear to be as nice as the Ritz. We focused first on getting itinerary we wanted in terms of number of days in each park and other cultural activities and then we focused on the lodging. The cost of the trip can vary greatly based upon the lodging.
tom
We did the coca-cola route back in 2016 and the summit day is long on the route. At that point in my hiking "career" I was more comfortable with the fixed camps associated with that route versus the routes that require you to set-up your camp each night. Now, I would probably make the opposite decision
Safari lodging runs from backpacking tents, to mid-level lodges to fixed tented lodges to high-end mobile tented camps that appear to be as nice as the Ritz. We focused first on getting itinerary we wanted in terms of number of days in each park and other cultural activities and then we focused on the lodging. The cost of the trip can vary greatly based upon the lodging.
tom
#8
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 529
Diamox might, or might not, be helpful. The science on this is unsettled, as is the science about spending an extra day or two on the mountain before summitting. Have a look at the excellent Wikipedia article about Mount Kilimanjaro.
December is usually wetter than November.
January until the long rains start is hot and dry but with gradually increasing humidity.
Kilimanjaro guides are all Tanzanians, as are the porters. There is no assurance whatsoever that a western safari company will train guides or porters more thoroughly than a Tanzanian safari company.
The cost of a safari or climb is not a reliable indicator of quality or reliability.
Unless one uses the Marangu route, it is not nearly as crowded or unpleasant as a previous post implies.
The Rongai route is generally considered far less scenic than the other routes.
If one wants to ensure that porters are paid adequately, give your tips directly to them. Not to the guide. Not to the safari company. Safari companies routinely violate their commitments to porters. Even the expensive ones.
The Mweka route is not used for ascents. But it is not true that everyone on the mountain descends via this route.
December is usually wetter than November.
January until the long rains start is hot and dry but with gradually increasing humidity.
Kilimanjaro guides are all Tanzanians, as are the porters. There is no assurance whatsoever that a western safari company will train guides or porters more thoroughly than a Tanzanian safari company.
The cost of a safari or climb is not a reliable indicator of quality or reliability.
Unless one uses the Marangu route, it is not nearly as crowded or unpleasant as a previous post implies.
The Rongai route is generally considered far less scenic than the other routes.
If one wants to ensure that porters are paid adequately, give your tips directly to them. Not to the guide. Not to the safari company. Safari companies routinely violate their commitments to porters. Even the expensive ones.
The Mweka route is not used for ascents. But it is not true that everyone on the mountain descends via this route.
Last edited by Sabasi; Feb 4, 2016 at 11:37 pm
#10
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: United States
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 3
As Sabasi mentioned, Diamox (U.S. brand of acetazolamide) does not help everyone. It does increase the amount of red blood cells which helps bring more oxygen to your muscles. It also is a diuretic that may cause an increased number of visits to the bathroom the first 24 to 36 hours (you may find yourself asking "where did all this liquid come from?"). In my experience, Diamox was absolutely helpful. Without it in Cusco, I had shallow breathing that woke me several times at night. With it in Cusco, sleep was normal.
The key here is that you don't want to mess with high altitude problems once you get there. If you start developing symptoms of high altitude sickness, you must descend immediately. (Your guide will "help" you do this, or rather, make you do so.) You cannot wait it out for a day to see if you get better. You cannot know ahead of time how your body will react to high altitude, even if it was not a problem in the past. Having to descend due to high altitude sickness is emotionally crushing, but better than the alternative of dying.
We took the Lemosho route. At the end of the second day, I thought to myself that we chose way too many days for this, and how boring it was going to be. However, the scenery changed at least once per day and the hike was great fun and a good challenge. Whether the extra day helped with the altitude, I can't be sure. Our guides took it slowly the whole way ("pole, pole") and we were never out of breath.
Be sure to train physically and mentally. Read a lot about what others have said about their experience. As Sabasi said, you will have an opportunity to tip your porter in person. If you are going with a group, you might work to coordinate in advance, but know that you are responsible for your porter in addition to whatever other tips you plan to give. (That said, we did also give a tip to the porter of a fellow climber who only gave a tip to the bigger pool.)
The key here is that you don't want to mess with high altitude problems once you get there. If you start developing symptoms of high altitude sickness, you must descend immediately. (Your guide will "help" you do this, or rather, make you do so.) You cannot wait it out for a day to see if you get better. You cannot know ahead of time how your body will react to high altitude, even if it was not a problem in the past. Having to descend due to high altitude sickness is emotionally crushing, but better than the alternative of dying.
We took the Lemosho route. At the end of the second day, I thought to myself that we chose way too many days for this, and how boring it was going to be. However, the scenery changed at least once per day and the hike was great fun and a good challenge. Whether the extra day helped with the altitude, I can't be sure. Our guides took it slowly the whole way ("pole, pole") and we were never out of breath.
Be sure to train physically and mentally. Read a lot about what others have said about their experience. As Sabasi said, you will have an opportunity to tip your porter in person. If you are going with a group, you might work to coordinate in advance, but know that you are responsible for your porter in addition to whatever other tips you plan to give. (That said, we did also give a tip to the porter of a fellow climber who only gave a tip to the bigger pool.)
#12
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: United States
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 3
Sabasi is correct that the red blod cell count does not increase. However, the level of oxygen in the blood is increased (see http://www.life.illinois.edu/ib/426/...eview_2007.pdf).
Additional information: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...D-C10002EE8E22
Additional information: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...D-C10002EE8E22