Aegean overbooking compensation
Sep 5, 2016, 6:52 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Flight overbooking - problem with compensation
Hello, I really need your help!
I volunteered for overbooking with Aegean for a flight from MXP Milan to Athens. We were told we would be reimbursed 500 euro each when we were proposed the offer, then told it would be 250 euro each. I saw that flights over 1.500KM merit 400 euro compensation.
The inflight monitors stated the flight was 1.522km, but Aegean says it was less than 1.500. I contacted easyjet, who has the same exact route, as was told the flight is 1.522km!
The airline told us they were sending us the compensation for 400 euro, then a week later we were told they made a mistake and canceled the wire transfer, and were sending us 250 euro instead. How incredibly unprofessional!!!
Aegean continues to insist that the distance is 1.485,38 km - defined by the International Air Transport Association (IATA). Does anyone know how I can have access to IATA's distances? Any advice on what to do? I've already checked online and have no found one source that says the distance is less than 1.500km.
Please help!
I volunteered for overbooking with Aegean for a flight from MXP Milan to Athens. We were told we would be reimbursed 500 euro each when we were proposed the offer, then told it would be 250 euro each. I saw that flights over 1.500KM merit 400 euro compensation.
The inflight monitors stated the flight was 1.522km, but Aegean says it was less than 1.500. I contacted easyjet, who has the same exact route, as was told the flight is 1.522km!
The airline told us they were sending us the compensation for 400 euro, then a week later we were told they made a mistake and canceled the wire transfer, and were sending us 250 euro instead. How incredibly unprofessional!!!
Aegean continues to insist that the distance is 1.485,38 km - defined by the International Air Transport Association (IATA). Does anyone know how I can have access to IATA's distances? Any advice on what to do? I've already checked online and have no found one source that says the distance is less than 1.500km.
Please help!
Sep 5, 2016, 6:58 am
#2
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A difference of 37 KM is substantial.
Have you checked the great circle website mileage numbers? Also, does EasyJet use the same airports at Athens and Milan? MXP versus the old Milan airport, in particular. Athens might have a second airport too.
Have you checked the great circle website mileage numbers? Also, does EasyJet use the same airports at Athens and Milan? MXP versus the old Milan airport, in particular. Athens might have a second airport too.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:10 am
#5
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There's a difference between IDB and VDB. Which were you? For the former, EC261 rules apply and you should file a claim. For the latter, the airline should give you what was promised at the time you agreed to take another flight.
BTW, how late did you arrive relative to the original schedule? This matters under EC261.
BTW, how late did you arrive relative to the original schedule? This matters under EC261.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:21 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
We are the former. We arrived 6 hours after scheduled flight. We've already filed the claim and it was closed when they told us they were paying us 400 euro each after I showed them photos of their monitors saying the flight was 1.522 km, but a week later we were emailed by another customer service agent who told us they made a mistake showing the mileage and would be sending us 250 euro.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:37 am
#7
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Firstly OP, you are absolutely correct in everything you've said here.
However, in terms of what to say to A3 you need to concentrate on the legal wording of the regulation and not get sidetracked by what A3 displays or other airlines tell you. No court is going to be interested in that if it comes to legal action - only the facts under law will be admitted.
So, what the monitors and Easyjet say isn't relevant here, because that's not how the regulation is worded - so in your correspondence with A3, don't bring them into it because it'll confuse the issue. The Great Circle Route method is what the law uses, and that gives (as you identified) 1,523km from MXP-ATH. (Interestingly, LIN-ATH is 1,475km, which might be what A3 is basing its figures on - but the regulation is about flights, not city pairs, so they can't do this.)
A3 is normally very good at correctly settling EC261 claims, so it's possible something has been lost in translation as a result of the multiple messages that have been sent. Write to them again, keep it simple stating the distance under Great Circle, the length of delay, and the compensation amount of 400 Euros due under the regulation. If A3 still denies liability to the correct level, take them to court (although I doubt it'll ever get that far). This is an open and shut case as far as I can see.
However, in terms of what to say to A3 you need to concentrate on the legal wording of the regulation and not get sidetracked by what A3 displays or other airlines tell you. No court is going to be interested in that if it comes to legal action - only the facts under law will be admitted.
So, what the monitors and Easyjet say isn't relevant here, because that's not how the regulation is worded - so in your correspondence with A3, don't bring them into it because it'll confuse the issue. The Great Circle Route method is what the law uses, and that gives (as you identified) 1,523km from MXP-ATH. (Interestingly, LIN-ATH is 1,475km, which might be what A3 is basing its figures on - but the regulation is about flights, not city pairs, so they can't do this.)
A3 is normally very good at correctly settling EC261 claims, so it's possible something has been lost in translation as a result of the multiple messages that have been sent. Write to them again, keep it simple stating the distance under Great Circle, the length of delay, and the compensation amount of 400 Euros due under the regulation. If A3 still denies liability to the correct level, take them to court (although I doubt it'll ever get that far). This is an open and shut case as far as I can see.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:52 am
#8
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
We didn't arrive late to the flight. They asked us if we would volunteer and we said yes. They originally told us the compensation would be 500 euro per passenger.
They keep talking about IATA's official distances, but there seems to be no way to access this. I would really like to have access to this to show them their KMs seem to be off.
Is there any kind of source I can send that says Great Circle Route is what the law uses?
They keep talking about IATA's official distances, but there seems to be no way to access this. I would really like to have access to this to show them their KMs seem to be off.
Is there any kind of source I can send that says Great Circle Route is what the law uses?
Sep 5, 2016, 8:53 am
#9
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
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The difference in miles is due to the calculation being based on MXP or MIL. From MIL it is indeed less than 1500 km. You could argue that you flew from MXP and not MIL, however MIL is the official airport code for all Milan airports. Difficult case..
But regardless this is not a case of compensation following European guidelines. You volunteered. I agree it was very unprofessional to first offer 500, and later reduce it to 250 - and personally I would use that argument to get them to pay the full amount.
But regardless this is not a case of compensation following European guidelines. You volunteered. I agree it was very unprofessional to first offer 500, and later reduce it to 250 - and personally I would use that argument to get them to pay the full amount.
Sep 5, 2016, 9:01 am
#10
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The distance is irrelevant. You volunteered for the offloading, so you are not entitled to compensation under EC261/2004.
It would be highly unusual for an airline to offer (considerably) more than the mandated compensation required for involuntary denied boarding, so I can only assume that there was some misunderstanding initially at the €500 each, rather than total, offer.
The logic goes:
- offer less than the involuntary denied boarding compensation, and see if enough volunteers come forward
- if not, offload people involuntarily, and pay the (higher) involuntary denied boarding compensation amount
It would be highly unusual for an airline to offer (considerably) more than the mandated compensation required for involuntary denied boarding, so I can only assume that there was some misunderstanding initially at the €500 each, rather than total, offer.
The logic goes:
- offer less than the involuntary denied boarding compensation, and see if enough volunteers come forward
- if not, offload people involuntarily, and pay the (higher) involuntary denied boarding compensation amount
Sep 5, 2016, 9:50 am
#11
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OP - This is still confusing. You say that you volunteered. That would be VDB. You then say "the former" referring to IDB.
If you "volunteered" in return for a promise of EUR 500, you are due EUR 500. EC 261/2004 has nothing to do with the compensation you are due as that is a private matter between you and A3. Carriers will sometimes offer significant sums in order not to have to IDB because IDB causes great ill will and through VDB the carrier has solved its problem and has a happy customer.
If you did not volunteer, but were involuntarily denied boarding, EC 261/2004, of course, does apply. In 2008, the EC issued Guidance which, while nonbinding, answers the question of how to measure distance. The Guidance suggests a specific website which, when the city pair is entered, provides 1,509 km.
I would suggest that OP file a straightforward claim under EC 261/2004 for EUR 400, noting that the distance is 1,509 km., providing a screenshot of the website and noting that it is from the website referenced by the EC.
Your profile does not give your location, you have not provided information as to where you purchased your ticket, and other information which might be helpful in determining how you might pursue A3, but that all comes into play should A3 simply deny your claim and stick to EUR 250.
If you "volunteered" in return for a promise of EUR 500, you are due EUR 500. EC 261/2004 has nothing to do with the compensation you are due as that is a private matter between you and A3. Carriers will sometimes offer significant sums in order not to have to IDB because IDB causes great ill will and through VDB the carrier has solved its problem and has a happy customer.
If you did not volunteer, but were involuntarily denied boarding, EC 261/2004, of course, does apply. In 2008, the EC issued Guidance which, while nonbinding, answers the question of how to measure distance. The Guidance suggests a specific website which, when the city pair is entered, provides 1,509 km.
I would suggest that OP file a straightforward claim under EC 261/2004 for EUR 400, noting that the distance is 1,509 km., providing a screenshot of the website and noting that it is from the website referenced by the EC.
Your profile does not give your location, you have not provided information as to where you purchased your ticket, and other information which might be helpful in determining how you might pursue A3, but that all comes into play should A3 simply deny your claim and stick to EUR 250.
Sep 5, 2016, 9:54 am
#12
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Can we assume that the OP's flight really did use MXP and not LIN?
Sep 5, 2016, 10:01 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Hmm I'm quite confused. The 500 euro issue was because they made a mistake at the counter with the amount of the compensation. With all the documents they gave me and our email exchanges, they continue to tell me I'm under the EC261/2004 regulation and that it's based on the mileage...
The distance is irrelevant. You volunteered for the offloading, so you are not entitled to compensation under EC261/2004.
It would be highly unusual for an airline to offer (considerably) more than the mandated compensation required for involuntary denied boarding, so I can only assume that there was some misunderstanding initially at the €500 each, rather than total, offer.
The logic goes:
- offer less than the involuntary denied boarding compensation, and see if enough volunteers come forward
- if not, offload people involuntarily, and pay the (higher) involuntary denied boarding compensation amount
It would be highly unusual for an airline to offer (considerably) more than the mandated compensation required for involuntary denied boarding, so I can only assume that there was some misunderstanding initially at the €500 each, rather than total, offer.
The logic goes:
- offer less than the involuntary denied boarding compensation, and see if enough volunteers come forward
- if not, offload people involuntarily, and pay the (higher) involuntary denied boarding compensation amount
Sep 5, 2016, 10:05 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Hi all, thanks for your help. I was asked if I would volunteer to take the next flight in return for compensation. All documentation provided at airport and all email exchanges cite EC261/2004. They use this regulation to defend their KM and that they say it's less than 1.500 km so according to them it's 250 euro compensation.
I'm sure I took the flight from MXP! I'm Italian and bought my tickets from Italy.
I'm sure I took the flight from MXP! I'm Italian and bought my tickets from Italy.
Sep 5, 2016, 10:14 am
#15
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EC261/2004 sets out the amount that must be paid in the case of involuntary denied boarding [among other instances], and the amount is dictated by the length of the journey, being divided into 3 distinct bands.
Involuntary denied boarding is when a person is prevented, against their will, from boarding the flight for which they hold a confirmed reservation.
Your OP states that you volunteered to be offloaded. As such, the amounts stated in EC261/2004 do not apply to you - you agreed, after discussing with the airline, to give up your seat for an "arbitrary" amount of compensation. (An airline and a passenger are free to come to an agreement that leads to voluntary denied boarding - and this is what happened with you. As such, you removed yourself from the scope of regulation EC261/2004 by agreeing to accept an amount of cash for agreeing to fly later).
People don't, of course, volunteer for nothing. The airline solicits such volunteers by offering money - a lower amount than would be the case if they have to kick people off the flight - and that appears to be what happened in this case, offering €250 per person rather than €400 as it seems they would have had to offer if no volunteers were forthcoming.
That you were offered €500 each appears to have been a mistake from the outset. While I agree that if you realised that you were only being offered €250 each you may not have volunteered. €500 is far more than they would have had to pay under the regulation so it makes no sense that they would offer this amount to "volunteers", rather than instead just kicking off however many people were needed and paying them €400 each.
This is a weird situation but I don't really think that you will get very far with any claim, given that you state quite openly that you "volunteered".
I realise this is a bit nasty, particularly if there was an attempt to mislead the passengers on the amount of the cash on offer.
Involuntary denied boarding is when a person is prevented, against their will, from boarding the flight for which they hold a confirmed reservation.
Your OP states that you volunteered to be offloaded. As such, the amounts stated in EC261/2004 do not apply to you - you agreed, after discussing with the airline, to give up your seat for an "arbitrary" amount of compensation. (An airline and a passenger are free to come to an agreement that leads to voluntary denied boarding - and this is what happened with you. As such, you removed yourself from the scope of regulation EC261/2004 by agreeing to accept an amount of cash for agreeing to fly later).
People don't, of course, volunteer for nothing. The airline solicits such volunteers by offering money - a lower amount than would be the case if they have to kick people off the flight - and that appears to be what happened in this case, offering €250 per person rather than €400 as it seems they would have had to offer if no volunteers were forthcoming.
That you were offered €500 each appears to have been a mistake from the outset. While I agree that if you realised that you were only being offered €250 each you may not have volunteered. €500 is far more than they would have had to pay under the regulation so it makes no sense that they would offer this amount to "volunteers", rather than instead just kicking off however many people were needed and paying them €400 each.
This is a weird situation but I don't really think that you will get very far with any claim, given that you state quite openly that you "volunteered".
I realise this is a bit nasty, particularly if there was an attempt to mislead the passengers on the amount of the cash on offer.