SkyGreece

Old Aug 30, 2015, 1:27 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Indeed - not necessarily surprising, but an unfortunate situation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ying-1.3207210

"Lukacs is calling on the agency to order SkyGreece to rebook its stranded passengers on other airlines within 24 hours and put up $8.7 million of security to cover passenger claims."

Hmmm, I'm sure a government agency can issue all kinds of orders. Somehow I find it a little bit unlikely there is a lot of cash left - especially to arrange CAD8.7m in "compo"...
nanyang is offline  
Old Aug 30, 2015, 1:34 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by Xandrios
Wow, sad news. Seems the aircraft is going to be chained in Canada to make sure people are compensated as well.

Not sure if it is totally fair to blame these problems on the Greek economic crisis - it seems their barbaric handling of flight operations and irrops was one of the main factors in people avoiding them.
It would appear that SX-BPN is owned by an entity called "Residco". Presumably not connected to the shareholders of SkyGreece?

Perhaps Nav Canada and the airport can put liens over the aircraft...

...but would be somewhat questionable if an aircraft owned by a third party was "chained" somewhere so that passengers can get "compo"?
nanyang is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2015, 1:24 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
Originally Posted by nanyang
It would appear that SX-BPN is owned by an entity called "Residco". Presumably not connected to the shareholders of SkyGreece?

Perhaps Nav Canada and the airport can put liens over the aircraft...

...but would be somewhat questionable if an aircraft owned by a third party was "chained" somewhere so that passengers can get "compo"?
Why not, theoretically speaking? But in this case, apparently the airport grounded it, because they want to be paid.

What is your source for the aircraft ownership? I was trying to find out about that yesterday. :-)

Last edited by sokolov; Aug 31, 2015 at 1:34 pm
sokolov is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2015, 1:37 pm
  #49  
Community Director
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by nanyang
It would appear that SX-BPN is owned by an entity called "Residco". Presumably not connected to the shareholders of SkyGreece?
Definitely not - Residco is an aircraft leasing company based in Chicago.

The plane is 23 years old, originally delivered to Martinair in 1992. Asking for trouble to run a company with just an airframe of that age, with maintenance always likely to be an issue as a result.

This was pretty much doomed from the outset.

I'm also not sure who the leasing company is - http://http://rzjets.net/aircraft/?typ=19058 suggests it might be Wilmington Trust Company, who also lease a large number of aircraft.

Last edited by NWIFlyer; Aug 31, 2015 at 1:45 pm
NWIFlyer is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:48 pm
  #50  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
Flightgobal reported in December 2013, that WFBN was the owner trustee for an unnamed US based investor. According to that report, SkyGreece entered a lease purchase agreement for the airplane.

I wonder how much of that lease purchase they have actually paid since.
sokolov is offline  
Old Sep 1, 2015, 4:06 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by sokolov
Flightgobal reported in December 2013, that WFBN was the owner trustee for an unnamed US based investor. According to that report, SkyGreece entered a lease purchase agreement for the airplane.

I wonder how much of that lease purchase they have actually paid since.
Indeed, was checking Ascend earlier. ^
nanyang is offline  
Old Sep 1, 2015, 4:10 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by sokolov
Why not, theoretically speaking? But in this case, apparently the airport grounded it, because they want to be paid.

What is your source for the aircraft ownership? I was trying to find out about that yesterday. :-)
I'm not a lawyer, so on very thin ice here commenting on aircraft repossessions in Greece / Canada.

No doubt people want money - but on the other hand, if we assume that the aircraft owner is a creditor as well, why should passengers have a claim against the aircraft?

To me it sounds somewhat similar to saying that the aircraft owner (lessor) could try and claim cash from other creditors. e.g. passengers. On that basis, should the passengers be held hostage at the airport until overdue payments to the aircraft owner are made?
nanyang is offline  
Old Sep 1, 2015, 8:12 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
Originally Posted by nanyang
No doubt people want money - but on the other hand, if we assume that the aircraft owner is a creditor as well, why should passengers have a claim against the aircraft?

To me it sounds somewhat similar to saying that the aircraft owner (lessor) could try and claim cash from other creditors. e.g. passengers. On that basis, should the passengers be held hostage at the airport until overdue payments to the aircraft owner are made?
Wrong question, because passengers pay in advance. They have already paid. They were not creditors, they used to be debtors of the airline, until they paid. Now they have rights in relation to the airline.

If the aircraft is at least partly owned by SkyGreece, this (partial) ownership is an asset. So, yes, it can probably be secured to guarantee payment, in case SkyGreece doesn't cough up the money. Alternatively, the other partial owners can deposit securities in like amount if they want to fly the aircraft.

The question is if the necessary procedure can be done in time.
sokolov is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2015, 7:14 am
  #54  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by sokolov
Wrong question, because passengers pay in advance. They have already paid. They were not creditors, they used to be debtors of the airline, until they paid. Now they have rights in relation to the airline.

If the aircraft is at least partly owned by SkyGreece, this (partial) ownership is an asset. So, yes, it can probably be secured to guarantee payment, in case SkyGreece doesn't cough up the money. Alternatively, the other partial owners can deposit securities in like amount if they want to fly the aircraft.

The question is if the necessary procedure can be done in time.
I'm not sure if I quite follow this line of thinking.

It's not entirely clear to me how pax could claim anything against the aircraft owner / lessor (which can be seen as a capacity supplier / creditor to SkyGreece). I'm not familiar with the deal, but I would not be entirely surprised if the aircraft owner's claim for losses vs. SkyGreece resulted in the aircraft owner / lessor having a significant claim vs. bankruptcy estate as well (assuming this is the end result).

It is clear that Eurocontrol liens (and similar items) "chase the tail", but not sure that the prospective pax of SkyGreece should go after any supplier / creditor of SkyGreece, e.g. airports, fuel providers?
nanyang is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2015, 11:16 am
  #55  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
Originally Posted by nanyang

It's not entirely clear to me how pax could claim anything against the aircraft owner / lessor (which can be seen as a capacity supplier / creditor to SkyGreece).
(...)

It is clear that Eurocontrol liens (and similar items) "chase the tail", but not sure that the prospective pax of SkyGreece should go after any supplier / creditor of SkyGreece, e.g. airports, fuel providers?
Nobody is going after the creditors. The airport is holding the plane because the fees aren't paid. Whoever owns the plane is mostly irrelevant.

The affected passengers want to get money, too. If the airline doesn't pay, which seems likely, the airline's assets will be liquidated. And the plane is an asset - more precisely that part of the plane which is owned by the airline.

If SkyGreece doesn't own any part, the planes is no asset.

AFAIK, there is no formal bankruptcy yet. In a bankruptcy, the rules change. But again, any share of a plane SkyGreece may own will become part of the " estate ".
sokolov is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2015, 12:08 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,845
A new airline is already waiting in the wings

http://www.olympusairways.gr
DELLAS is online now  
Old Sep 2, 2015, 2:20 pm
  #57  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: MAN,TLV
Programs: Silver:BA,VX,AB, QF. Gold:A3,RJ,AZ,GF, EY,SPG,Marriott,Choice, Carlson. Dia/Plat:HH,IHG,BW,Accor
Posts: 1,965
Originally Posted by DELLAS
A new airline is already waiting in the wings

http://www.olympusairways.gr
benberg2013 is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2015, 4:45 pm
  #58  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: A3&O6 Gold,IC AMB & HH Diamond
Posts: 14,132
Originally Posted by DELLAS
A new airline is already waiting in the wings

http://www.olympusairways.gr
Oh, goodness!!
djjaguar64 is offline  
Old Sep 4, 2015, 9:36 am
  #59  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: OTP
Programs: AF/KL platinum, Turkish gold, QR gold
Posts: 1,565
Originally Posted by sokolov
AFAIK, there is no formal bankruptcy yet. In a bankruptcy, the rules change. But again, any share of a plane SkyGreece may own will become part of the " estate ".
There will be soon apparently:

Declaring bankruptcy appears to be SkyGreeces next step according to media reports.

Canadian media report that a letter had been sent to the Canadian Transport Agency (CTA) on Thursday, by law firm Paliare Roland Rosenberg Rothstein LLP indicating that SkyGreece had filed a notice of intention to seek bankruptcy protection and begin restructuring proceedings.

The discount carrier had until Thursday to respond to a preliminary ruling from the Canadian Transport Agency (CTA) that it had failed to meet its contractual obligations to passengers. But late on Thursday, the company replaced its homepage with an error message.

According to the said document, the court-supervised restructuring proceedings will ensure that all stakeholders, including passengers, will receive fair compensation for their claims.

As the trustee for SkyGreece, Ernst & Young Inc will be communicating with the carriers creditors and customers in efforts to establish contact points through which creditors can provide and obtain information.

Source: http://www.chaniapost.eu/2015/09/04/skygreece-saga-continues-bankruptcy-looms/
Romanianflyer is offline  
Old Sep 4, 2015, 11:40 am
  #60  
Community Director
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,448
How on earth can you restructure with a fleet size of one???

I'm not particularly familiar with Canadian law in respect of protection from creditors, but I can only assume this is a measures to afford the Directors personal security from being liable.
NWIFlyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.