SkyGreece
#46
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
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Indeed - not necessarily surprising, but an unfortunate situation.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ying-1.3207210
"Lukacs is calling on the agency to order SkyGreece to rebook its stranded passengers on other airlines within 24 hours and put up $8.7 million of security to cover passenger claims."
Hmmm, I'm sure a government agency can issue all kinds of orders. Somehow I find it a little bit unlikely there is a lot of cash left - especially to arrange CAD8.7m in "compo"...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ying-1.3207210
"Lukacs is calling on the agency to order SkyGreece to rebook its stranded passengers on other airlines within 24 hours and put up $8.7 million of security to cover passenger claims."
Hmmm, I'm sure a government agency can issue all kinds of orders. Somehow I find it a little bit unlikely there is a lot of cash left - especially to arrange CAD8.7m in "compo"...
#47
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Wow, sad news. Seems the aircraft is going to be chained in Canada to make sure people are compensated as well.
Not sure if it is totally fair to blame these problems on the Greek economic crisis - it seems their barbaric handling of flight operations and irrops was one of the main factors in people avoiding them.
Not sure if it is totally fair to blame these problems on the Greek economic crisis - it seems their barbaric handling of flight operations and irrops was one of the main factors in people avoiding them.
Perhaps Nav Canada and the airport can put liens over the aircraft...
...but would be somewhat questionable if an aircraft owned by a third party was "chained" somewhere so that passengers can get "compo"?
#48
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
It would appear that SX-BPN is owned by an entity called "Residco". Presumably not connected to the shareholders of SkyGreece?
Perhaps Nav Canada and the airport can put liens over the aircraft...
...but would be somewhat questionable if an aircraft owned by a third party was "chained" somewhere so that passengers can get "compo"?
Perhaps Nav Canada and the airport can put liens over the aircraft...
...but would be somewhat questionable if an aircraft owned by a third party was "chained" somewhere so that passengers can get "compo"?
What is your source for the aircraft ownership? I was trying to find out about that yesterday. :-)
Last edited by sokolov; Aug 31, 2015 at 1:34 pm
#49
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The plane is 23 years old, originally delivered to Martinair in 1992. Asking for trouble to run a company with just an airframe of that age, with maintenance always likely to be an issue as a result.
This was pretty much doomed from the outset.
I'm also not sure who the leasing company is - http://http://rzjets.net/aircraft/?typ=19058 suggests it might be Wilmington Trust Company, who also lease a large number of aircraft.
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Aug 31, 2015 at 1:45 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
Flightgobal reported in December 2013, that WFBN was the owner trustee for an unnamed US based investor. According to that report, SkyGreece entered a lease purchase agreement for the airplane.
I wonder how much of that lease purchase they have actually paid since.
I wonder how much of that lease purchase they have actually paid since.
#51
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Indeed, was checking Ascend earlier. ^
#52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
No doubt people want money - but on the other hand, if we assume that the aircraft owner is a creditor as well, why should passengers have a claim against the aircraft?
To me it sounds somewhat similar to saying that the aircraft owner (lessor) could try and claim cash from other creditors. e.g. passengers. On that basis, should the passengers be held hostage at the airport until overdue payments to the aircraft owner are made?
#53
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
No doubt people want money - but on the other hand, if we assume that the aircraft owner is a creditor as well, why should passengers have a claim against the aircraft?
To me it sounds somewhat similar to saying that the aircraft owner (lessor) could try and claim cash from other creditors. e.g. passengers. On that basis, should the passengers be held hostage at the airport until overdue payments to the aircraft owner are made?
To me it sounds somewhat similar to saying that the aircraft owner (lessor) could try and claim cash from other creditors. e.g. passengers. On that basis, should the passengers be held hostage at the airport until overdue payments to the aircraft owner are made?
If the aircraft is at least partly owned by SkyGreece, this (partial) ownership is an asset. So, yes, it can probably be secured to guarantee payment, in case SkyGreece doesn't cough up the money. Alternatively, the other partial owners can deposit securities in like amount if they want to fly the aircraft.
The question is if the necessary procedure can be done in time.
#54
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 857
Wrong question, because passengers pay in advance. They have already paid. They were not creditors, they used to be debtors of the airline, until they paid. Now they have rights in relation to the airline.
If the aircraft is at least partly owned by SkyGreece, this (partial) ownership is an asset. So, yes, it can probably be secured to guarantee payment, in case SkyGreece doesn't cough up the money. Alternatively, the other partial owners can deposit securities in like amount if they want to fly the aircraft.
The question is if the necessary procedure can be done in time.
If the aircraft is at least partly owned by SkyGreece, this (partial) ownership is an asset. So, yes, it can probably be secured to guarantee payment, in case SkyGreece doesn't cough up the money. Alternatively, the other partial owners can deposit securities in like amount if they want to fly the aircraft.
The question is if the necessary procedure can be done in time.
It's not entirely clear to me how pax could claim anything against the aircraft owner / lessor (which can be seen as a capacity supplier / creditor to SkyGreece). I'm not familiar with the deal, but I would not be entirely surprised if the aircraft owner's claim for losses vs. SkyGreece resulted in the aircraft owner / lessor having a significant claim vs. bankruptcy estate as well (assuming this is the end result).
It is clear that Eurocontrol liens (and similar items) "chase the tail", but not sure that the prospective pax of SkyGreece should go after any supplier / creditor of SkyGreece, e.g. airports, fuel providers?
#55
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,504
It's not entirely clear to me how pax could claim anything against the aircraft owner / lessor (which can be seen as a capacity supplier / creditor to SkyGreece).
(...)
It is clear that Eurocontrol liens (and similar items) "chase the tail", but not sure that the prospective pax of SkyGreece should go after any supplier / creditor of SkyGreece, e.g. airports, fuel providers?
The affected passengers want to get money, too. If the airline doesn't pay, which seems likely, the airline's assets will be liquidated. And the plane is an asset - more precisely that part of the plane which is owned by the airline.
If SkyGreece doesn't own any part, the planes is no asset.
AFAIK, there is no formal bankruptcy yet. In a bankruptcy, the rules change. But again, any share of a plane SkyGreece may own will become part of the " estate ".
#56
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#57
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#58
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#59
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Declaring bankruptcy appears to be SkyGreeces next step according to media reports.
Canadian media report that a letter had been sent to the Canadian Transport Agency (CTA) on Thursday, by law firm Paliare Roland Rosenberg Rothstein LLP indicating that SkyGreece had filed a notice of intention to seek bankruptcy protection and begin restructuring proceedings.
The discount carrier had until Thursday to respond to a preliminary ruling from the Canadian Transport Agency (CTA) that it had failed to meet its contractual obligations to passengers. But late on Thursday, the company replaced its homepage with an error message.
According to the said document, the court-supervised restructuring proceedings will ensure that all stakeholders, including passengers, will receive fair compensation for their claims.
As the trustee for SkyGreece, Ernst & Young Inc will be communicating with the carriers creditors and customers in efforts to establish contact points through which creditors can provide and obtain information.
Source: http://www.chaniapost.eu/2015/09/04/skygreece-saga-continues-bankruptcy-looms/
#60
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How on earth can you restructure with a fleet size of one???
I'm not particularly familiar with Canadian law in respect of protection from creditors, but I can only assume this is a measures to afford the Directors personal security from being liable.
I'm not particularly familiar with Canadian law in respect of protection from creditors, but I can only assume this is a measures to afford the Directors personal security from being liable.